Loops looptimes timing and Questions (and loop4)

[SoundFNR@aol.com]

The questions are :
Once you've set up a loop, in what ways do you alter the timing?
How would you want to alter the timing if you could?
Do you want to stick to conventional time signatures?
How do the features of a looping device relate to this?

And the Questions relate to:
Looping in general.
Looping on the EDP.
Certain functions of the new Loop4 software for the EDP.

With some looping devices, this an easy question.
The loop time always stays the same.

But with the EDP and Repeater, (others) there exists the 
chance to alter the loop time during performance.

So in changing the loop length, what happens to the rhythm?
If we just multiply the length by a whole number of times, the rhythm 
stays 
the
same, although the musical structure changes.

Is the most important thing to "stay in time with a drum machine?"
(which includes using polyrhythms)

How many loopers out there are changing loop length in order to change 
time 
signature?
...and who adds ("Inserts") a sound  into a loop without regard for time 
signature? The length of the sound being added to the length of the loop 
without regard to any rigid timing constraint.
For instance, you could be working with a loop of a lyric, and want to 
splice 
in a word to change the meaning.


OK, post now gets EDP specific. To make sense of this you need to know 
that a 
loop on the EDP can be made up of a number of equal length segments called 
Cycles.


The EDP is possibly the only device with an Insert, so you can splice an 
extra section into the loop. This can be done either in whole numbers of 
Cycles, to stay rigidly in time, or for any time length.

Do users find that without a drum machine synced, it is hard to make an 
insert that sounds in time, as you need to stay very accurately on the 
exact 
beats if the end of the Insert is going to match up?
Is it easier to use Record as an  alternate ending of Insert, so that the 
timing sounds right, even though you're basically aiming for the 
impression 
of  regular time?

There are similar issues with the EDP Multiply function.
Its possible to change the loop length either in whole numbers of Cycles,
or by an arbitrary amount (with an alternate button for ending).
How do EDP loopers use this ability ?

LOOP 4 Survey.
In Loop3, a number of alternate endings to Multply and Insert were given a 
"quick fix", so that they were useable when Quantise=OFF without crashing 
the 
software.

So Multiply ended by Reverse(when Quantise=OFF) would cause the loop to be 
trimmed to a new length.
Also there are a number of similar functions, all governed by the same 
"fix".
Insert ended by Reverse
Insert ended by Multiply  
etc...etc...etc...

Now in Loop4 Matthias has worked out how to "properly fix" this, so that 
those functions are "Rounded" . That is , the Multiply or Insert will 
continue until it has completed a whole number of Cycles before ending.
(this does not effect Multiply>Rec, Insert>Rec)
This isn't Quantise, (you could always get that behavior when quantised), 
but 
works to keep the Cycle length when Quantise=OFF.
This is now in the Beta versions of Loop4, but one of the considerations 
of 
Loop4 is 
"No features may be taken away from loop3 users".

Are these "functions", or just "emergent artifacts", (a behaviour which 
was 
not intended by the designer).
Have the EDP Loopers out there become dependant on these?

The loop trimming function can still be had if you hit Rec before the end 
of 
the whole number of cycles. 

One example is the NextLoop>Multiply>Reverse trick.
(SwitchQuant=Cnf, Quant=OFF) 
which allows you to take out a small section of loop while Reversing it,
and then to return to the original loop.
This is still possible under loop4, but is now
Nextloop>Multiply>Reverse>Record, with an extra button press between the 2 
presses that determine the length of the section. (not as good) 

...but with the new fix, you can end a Multiply and go straight into 
Reverse 
without loosing the cycle structure of the loop ( just like if you were 
using 
Quantise) 


So what is the most important:-
1)keeping a Cycle structure (even when not Quantised)
OR
2)Being able to to any time change easily??????


These questions came up during the Beta testing of Loop4, so Matthias 
hinted 
that I might send a post to the list to test the water on this one. 


andy butler