Torstein, I have to apologize for making a statement where I can't say anything about its content of truth: I simply confused Rane and Rolls. I do not have any experience with devices by Rane myself, so I simply can't comment on this. On the other hand, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the statements about Behringer products on a great many rec forums are not exactly matter-of-factly. A lot of these discussions actually reached the Godwin-propability of 1 very quickly. The problem with Behringer gear is that you cannot be sure what to expect. Some of their stuff is great, not only for the price, but also in comparison with products in a different price range. Some of their stuff is simply crap and not worth the few bucks they charge for it. And with some of the stuff it depends on your application: if a Behringer console lasts for more than a dozen years (and is still fine) in its specific application (hobbyist home use), then I can live without the better reliability of, say, a Mackie which costs three times its price, especially when the Behringer actually outperforms the Mackie with regard to specifications. I've used and/or test-driven a great lot of Behringer devices - if anyone wants some first-hand experience, please mail me off-list with your specific enquiry. Rainer -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Torstein H. Rem [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Juli 2005 00:53 An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Betreff: Re: what about patchbay ? I can only talk from my experience with the Rane SM82, which works great, but this is the first time ever I`ve heard anyone claim that Behringer is generally of better quality than the Rane products. And I`ve heard a lot on many rec forums. :-) The Rane is not perfect and a here are a couple of threads from rec.audio about changing the opamps for better sonics; http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=no&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en& threadm=091220032120158115%25ulyssesnospam%40rollmusic.com&rnum=1&prev=/ groups%3Fq%3Drane%2520SM82%2520upgrade%26hl%3Dno%26lr%3D%26rls%3DRNWE,RN WE:2004-51,RNWE:en%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=no&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en& threadm=375FF213.4799A194%40earthlink.net&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Drane %2520SM82%2520upgrade%26hl%3Dno%26lr%3D%26rls%3DRNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:e n%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg I once mailed Jim Willams regarding a possible upgrade (I`m no tech head) and the answer I got was; "I did an extensive mod on one of those for tonmeister Andrew Lipinsky several years ago. It was OK, but it's tiny power transformer limits what quality parts can be used. It's probably not worth the money to do that much work on it unless you have stringent acoustic recording requirements. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades" You could do some of your routing ideas with a line mixer like the SM82. The stereo send and return could be used as two mono effect loops returning to two free mono channels rather than using the effect returns. There`s good documentation on the Rane site; http://www.rane.com/sm82.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:06 PM Subject: AW: what about patchbay ? I'd like to advise against the smaller Behringer mixers...they are so cheap that they really ARE cheap. Rule of thumb: do not get one of those below the €100 price mark. I have to admit I haven't been testing the UB series to a greater extent, but I do own two MX2642A and firmly believe that this must be the best mixer ever built for artists with lots of effects (like most of us): six auxes and four busses, a total of 26 inputs (or 8 mono ins (w/ inserts AND direct outs), 4 stereo ins, 4 aux returns and one tape return), it's a rackmount device and its patchbay (which has all the connectors mounted to it, not the usual inputs and inserts on top, outputs on the rear) can be mounted on the rear or the bottom (great for rack installation). Without wanting to start a flame war, I believe that Behringer gear is of a higher quality in every aspect than Rane gear. While Mackie does win over Behringer with regard to reliability, some of the Behringer stuff actually wins with regard to audio specs. Rainer -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Torstein H. Rem [mailto:email@example.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Juli 2005 22:16 An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Betreff: Re: what about patchbay ? It\s not clear to me if you are looking for a patchbay or a line mixer. A patch is great for routing and making gear accessible but it won`t mix several sourches down to stereo. I have a couple of the Rane SM82 line mixers and they are solid and clean sounding. Eight stereo ins, stereo send and return, balanced stereo out (if needed) etc. The SM26 is a more simple version. Both can be found on ebay; http://search.ebay.com/rane-mixer_Musical-Instruments_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfro mZR4QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ619 Probably several here who use different brands of line mixers as well as the smaller Mackie and Behringer mixers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fabio Anile To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: what about patchbay ? Apart this (it's just to share...) I know there are lot of you in this list having a big knowledge about mixers and connection systems. And as you know there may be a lot of methods to send the "played" signal into a loop machine (bus, alternate outs, out sends, etc...) What I'd like to know is if "patchbay" (like behringer products) are usefull for connect 2 or 3 stereo loop-machines, receiving the "played " signal from a source. What about ? Thanks in advantage for your suggestions.