Per Boysen wrote: "Thank you for an interesting post! Here is another theory: Maybe the public as well as many musicians hang on to A-B-A-C-A structured music simply because our main culture is so heavily based on GRATIFICATION?" That's an interesting thesis, but I firmly believe that the love of form by human beings is intrinsically wired into our neurophysiology and the consequent way we look at things. The synaptic gap in our nerves, allowing for messages to either pass (1) or not pass (0) intrinsically creates a causal relationship in mind. Because there are millions of them and because the combinations of possible human thought are virtually endless there is tremendous diversity in human expression but the vast majority of human musical expression is ordered all over the planet. I'm not arguing that this is right or wrong, but it is undeniable. Even the musician or listener who prefers a-formal music or a-rhythmic music is still responding in a causal way to their own environment ("I hate the dominance of modern pop and only listen to free improv"). My own intellectual mentor, the late Gregory Bateson, said that because of the inherent binary neurophysiology of the human brain and because of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle that human beings are doomed to create causal maps of reality with our perceptions. Since, as Korzybsy said, "The map is not the territory" we are inherently doomed to make fundamentally innaccurate maps. Bateson though, points out that there is such a thing as bad maps and better maps. He says we should have the humility to always realize that we are doomed to not understanding the nature of reality (or art or music) but that we can have always commit ourselves to constantly revising our maps of the way things work. ********* Additionally, we also have intrinsic limitations due to the most sophisticated muscle groups that we have in the body (outside of the mouth.........he he he). We have two feet.................the most prevalent rhythms in human experience are those of walking (groups of two) and the heartbeat (arguably the loudest clock we have in our body and the organ that the brain takes the perception of tempo from. Additionally we have five fingers on each hand. How fascinating that after hundreds of years of coming up with rhythmic systems that the Northern and Southern Indians have settled on one that only has these four elements: two, three, four and five (respectively Ta ki, Ta ki ta, Ta ki di mi, Ta ki di na tom). Psychologists have pointed out that human beings can concieve of 5 things separately but when we encounter any greater number that we have to group things in order to think about them (6 = 2 + 2 +2 or 3 + 3). These patternings are reiterated all over the planet. All dance musics that exist can be broken into groupings of 2s and 3s. ********* All of this may, of course, just be some monstrous rationalization for the fact that I'm a drummer intrinsically and have loved grooves all my life. Krispen says that it takes work for him to make music with form. I'm the opposite: I tend immediately to impose form on my own music. In fact I rather love using chaos and randomness and then constraining it heavily. Live looping devices that don't use lowered feedback settings as Matthias has so beautifully built into the EDP are just perfect for imposing form onto live recorded performance. I really enjoy the beautiful soundscapes that Matthias uses as they are constantly shifting and changing, but personally I don't at all feel tyrannized by 100% feedback settings. It's rather liberating to me as a multi-instrumentalist. I think it's shocking to Matthias, perhaps, but I just haven't felt the need to use reduced feedback on the EDP. Glitch things up with INS = SUS/OVERDUB = SUS or rhythymically replacing portions of the loop with INS = SUB and I"m all over that machine.............lol. Last night I watched Jeff Kaiser do some amazing looping avante garde music................what struck me, though was , that instead of sounding completely free, my human brain heard the starts and starts of whole musical passages that were triggered by my own mind imposing form on the things he did. Maybe it's the tension between these two approaches (constantly morphing looping strategies and rigidly formulaic ones) that makes the music on this list so delicious. Viva la difference, n'cest pas?