Re: anti-looper bigots / Miles & Teo

[andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>]

looppool@cruzio.com wrote:
> the Rev Fevers wrote:
> "I wonder how they felt when they later found out that he and Teo Marcero
> employed a lot of looping in the over all creation of Bitches Brew,etc.
> Speaking of that, here is some inspirational reading.  Enjoy...
> 
> 
>http://milesite.blogspot.com/2009/02/teo-macero-on-producing-miles-davis.html
> 

The procedure as detailed there.

1) Session recorded
2) Whole session mixed down
3) Session edited to 8-9 minute masters (Teo + Miles)
4) Teo uses editing to repeat sections of the music to make a whole album.


> 
> Andy you know,  I"ve been thinking about this:
> 
> A lot of people have credited Miles (under the influence of Bill Evans)
> for ushering in the
> modal approach and, effectively putting a period on the post-bop 
>movement.

Well, I'm never sure about "lot of people" type statements.
I'm more of a one piece of good evidence is all it needs kind
of a guy.

> 
> His think was that is the band played modally that the soloist would then
> have more freedom
> to control the harmony (whereas before,  it was always the chordalists 
>who
> dictated the harmony to the soloists)

The ideal for bebop, afaik, is that the chordal accompanist listens
to how the soloist is treating the skeletal harmony of the chart and
comps accordingly.
Most of Kind of Blue is exactly that, but with the chord changes 
coming much slower. 
This was the important change
away from bebop chord prison... I couldn't say Miles was the first,
and he actually claims it's part of an existing trend on the Kind
of Blue sleeve notes.


> 
> In a way,  by introducing tape loops on 'In a Silent Way'  (neglected as
> the predecessor and I feel, the superior record to the more famous
> "Bitches Brew")
> he was doing the same thing to the percussionists.
> 
> By introducing a static loop that held down the groove,  in essence,  the
> percussionists and drummers were free to explore more.

Rev's link does not confirm the methodology for recording
that this suggests.

> 
> You really hear this too as the fusion movement came out of these 
>records:

er...Zappa got there first. (others?)
Miles legitimised fusion, and helped it along.
Let's not let music critics re-write history.

I like Miles.
e.g. currently a band I'm in is Playing "Perfect Way"(from Tutu)
and I get to play a transcript of the trumpet melody/solo bit.
It's a really exciting piece to play.

...but I don't understand all these "Miles started...."
themes. There are a lot of supporters, but no evidence in
terms of recordings, anecdotes from players around at the
time, or even Davis' own claims (too modest?).
If you want to prove Mingus was influenced by Coleman, then
Eric Dolphy described being bundled into Mingus' car, driven
to a Coleman gig and asked to play in that style. 
It's possible to listen to the relevant albums and hear
how that worked out.

Why not just credit Miles for a great contribution?


>    percussion
> became vastly more adventuresome,   especially in terms of the varied
> timbres that multi-percussionists began to bring into the music.   
> Texture became as important as rhythm or
> style.

ok people.. Rick's well into his second expresso today :-)
just sit back and enjoy


> That's one of the things that I try to explain when I go to the fairly
> conservative Percussion Arts Seminar annual conventions (called PASIC).  
> 
> Most people assume that a constantly repeating thing is a limitation, 
>when
> in reality it's amazingly liberating as a multi-instrumentalist or as
> a multi-percussionist.
> 
> Typically, as a groove oriented drummer for most of my life, I have had 
>to
> hold down the fort with a groove.    I could hear amazing things in my
> head as embellishments to the rhythm but , as I always told my students:
> 'There is the groove and there is commentary on the groove
> and when you are commenting on the groove you are not playing the 
>groove.'
>
>   The only way to get around this successfully is to pay a groove for 
>long
> enough that when you veer from it with a fill or embellishment, that the
> listener hears the groove continuing due to the depth of it's trance.
> 
> In successful pop drumming, as a rule,  you tend not to want to use any
> more than a 1/16 ratio
> of fill to groove.     And that's playing a lot of 
>fills...........(that's
> a one beat fill every four bars or
> up to a one bar fill every sixteen bars,  which is pretty over the top in
> a pop song).
> 
> So, yeah to Miles and Teo!!!!!      original jazz loopers!
> 

andy