Re: Forced to withdraw with apologies and an important note about the economics of selling CD/DVDs

[david kirkdorffer <unstrungone@yahoo.com>]

Sorry you are dropping out Rick.

I think I mentioned right from the start that the plan was to share 
production costs to produce 1000 CD s.

Rick proposes an interesting option for anyone, however I m not interested 
in the one-off production process for the LD CD IV.  

If anyone else would like to back-out, let me know.

Cheers!

David.

On Wed Mar 17th, 2010 8:45 PM EDT Rick Walker wrote:

>Hi guys,  
>I feel embarrassed but I didn't know that a run of a thousand CDs was
>planned  
>nor that we would be sharing the costs of said manufacturing. 
> 
>I just dont' have any wheres near the $200 it would take to invest in
>this so I"m going to have to be  
>forced to withdraw from this exciting project. 
> 
>Please give my spot to the next deserving Looper. 
> 
>Please forgive me for pulling out.  I am just really having a hard 
>time
>economically right now. 
> 
>yours,    
>Rick Walker 
> 
>ps   Dear David and everyone:    A Note about the 
>manufacturing and
>selling of CDs in this economy: 
> 
>   For what it's worth,   I have this gratuitous 
>advice for the
>project: 
> 
>I propose a different method for having our CDs made that will be far
>less costly per participant  
>and have several efficacious results.   Please read on and 
>since this
>is gratuitous advice, I don't mind  
>at all if it's an irritant and you don't want to follow my
>suggestions.   I do it in the spirit of promoting  
>ourselves and also in not losing money on the project: 
> 
>To Whit: 
> 
>In the past four years CD sales have almost ceased to exist for most
>independent musicians. 
>I use to sell 20 - 50 CDs a show back in 2001-2003 and I don't even
>take the CDs to shows any more. 
> 
>Consequently,  it's almost always a money losing proposition to
>manufacturer 1,000 CDs and it ends up  
>that you end up sitting on a tremendous amount of bulky inventory,  
>not
>to mention the ecological impact of  
>making more plastic. 
> 
>Most artists I know who still put out CDs have gone to the model of
>having them manufactured (at a higher but not by much  
>per CD basis) when they are sold (Krispen Hartung is a really good
>resource for this method and has used it very successfully  
>for his releases). 
> 
>This has several advantages to running lots of 1,000 CDs at a time: 
> 
>1)  you don't have to spend money that is not necessary 
>2)  you almost always make a profit on your investment 
>3) you lower your ecological impact 
>4) you lower your space impact (for storing unsold CDs) 
> 
>Addtionally,   you can put URLs on the artwork and have 
>printable
>artwork stored online for the people who want it 
>(surprising to me, how many people DON'T want the artwork)  which
>further reduces your cost. 
> 
>This all looks, nominally,  a bit less professional but it is a
>strategy designed for a world in global recession  
>and one that is experiencing fewer and fewer sales of CDs. 
> 
>One can even have 'one off'   DVDs made that have the 
>audio files for
>playing in CD players and computers,  
>high and low quality MP3s for those who want iPod play,  all the
>graphics for booklets in a printable form (.pdf) 
> 
>All of this only costs about $3 a DVD,   or $2 a CD. 
> 
>Please consider all of this,   David and if you change your 
>mind on the
>plan of attack and adopt  
>this approach,  then I'll be back in on it. 
> 
>If not,  no hard feelings and I apologize for wasting your time. 
> 
>respectfully,   Rick Walker 
> 
>david kirkdorffer wrote:
>
>  
>  
>  
>  Hello -  
>    
>  Yesterday I proposed creating
>another Loopers-Delight compilation CD, gathering examples of our
>Looping music. 
>  Today we have a full roster of
>participants! 
>    
>  THE LD CD IV TEAM 
>  1. Matt Stevens  
>  2. Duke Sexton  
>  3. Ted Killian  
>  4. fabio  
>  5. Tony K  
>  6. Antony Hequet  
>  7. Andy Butler  
>  8. Dennis Moser  
>  9. Edward Yuhas  
>  10. Andy G  
>  11. Rick Walker  
>  12. David Kirkdorffer 
>    
>  The basic details will be no
>surprise:  
>  - 12 particpants each submit 1 track
>no longer than 6 minutes. 
>  - Please consider the track submitted
>100% finished as far as you are concerned. 
>  - All costs for preparation and
>production of 1000 shrink-wrapped CDs with 4-panel color artwork in
>Jewel Cases are to be divided among the 12 participants. 
>  - All 1000 CDs to be divided among the
>12 participants (so 80 CD's each). 
>  - Delivery costs will be charged based
>on mailing costs (from Boston, MA) to participants' addresses.  
>    
>  I propose using the following service
>for CD production: http://www.wonderdrugrecords.com/  
>  They've done great work for me for my
>own UNDO CDs. 
>    
>  What will this cost me? 
>  Final costs to be commnicated, but
>expect to pay something in the $200 dollar range, not including postage
>delivery of your CDs. 
>  I have used some top-flight mastering
>in the past for 12 other CDs I've produced: 
>http://www.peerlessmastering.com/. 
>I want to master the collection to ensure the collected music plays
>well together. However, to keep costs down, I know another option I can
>use that I believe will work great and not cost us anything. Stay tuned. 
>    
>  What will I get? 
>  1. Each participant wil receive
>80 shrink-wrapped CDs with 4-panel color artwork in Jewel Cases. 
>  2. Depending on if everyone agrees, I
>can also arrange electronic distribution for this CD through IODA: 
>http://www.iodalliance.com/.
>However, that brings up the question of distribution of any sales
>income (which I'm happy to do for 24 months). 
>    
>  Are their any restrictions on
>the music? 
>  1. Please do not submit anything that
>contains ANY samples of other people's work. 
>  2. Please do not submit anything that
>contains profane language. :-) 
>    
>  How do I pay? 
>  1. I'm not 100% sure yet.   
>  2. I don't have a PayPal account, but
>that might be the easiest way to do this. 
>    
>  What are the deadlines and timelines? 
>  1. I propose that all musical
>submitions must be received by May 1, 2010.  That's six weeks 
>away.  
>  2. I propose that all payments must be
>received by May 1, 2010. 
>  3. Please allow 2 weeks for mastering. 
>  4. I need to confirm CD production
>turnaround time - 4-8 weeks, depending on when we send this in (oddly,
>this si a seasonal business). 
>    
>  What do I do next? 
>  Please send David an email with the
>following details: 
>  1. Your Full Name: 
>  2. Your Musical Project's Name: 
>  3. Your Phone Number and Email for
>communication related to this project: 
>  4. The full mailing address to which
>you would like to receive your CDs: 
>  5. Would you like David to arrange
>IODA electronic distribution (iTunes, Amazon, etc..) YES or NO. (See
>"What Will I Get?", above):  
>    
>  What does David need to do
>next? 
>  1. Calculate and communicate exact
>costs for CD duplication. 
>  2. Confirm mastering costs.  
>  3. Find a graphic artist to donate
>services. 
>  4. Communicate to participants if
>there is universal agreement for IODA electronic distribution. 
>    
>  What else? 
>  Is
>there anyone who would like to volunteer to create the artwork to match
>these specifications: http://www.wonderdrugrecords.com/sub5.htm 
>  If
>you decide to back out, please do so in writing to my YAHOO email
>address, and NOT the LD list - I can only read
>every 3rd Digest, they come so quickly! 
>    
>  What is David's motivation to
>do this? 
>  1. Its been a while since LD CD III,
>so it seems like a good idea. 
>  2. I need more work to do in my life /
>I must be crazy. 
>  3. I generally like the process. 
>  4. Good karma. 
>    
>  I hope this email helps answer
>questions you may have. It really doesn't need to be complicated 
>as
>long as we can all follow the process and deadlines.   
>    
>  Please let me know if you have any
>other questions! 
>    
>  Kind regards, 
>    
>  David 
>