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hi jj, >Ever play the game "Life" on the computer? your ideas are pretty fascinating - but I'd think cellular automata or similar rule based complex systems are things one would realize using a computer rather than a dedicated loop box. Have you checked out Sseyo's Koan software? I think it is based on related ideas (haven't tried it myself) and Brian Eno uses it. Michael Peters default mail address: 100041.247@compuserve.com binary stuff and attachments: mp@scholz.re.eunet.de http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters