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The "Unsettling Ambiences" thread reminded me of a passage in one of my old theory books, so I went back into the archives and found it. It's from Jerry Coker's book "Improvising Jazz" (copyright 1964), page 15, and, I think, applicable to the disscussion at hand. It's a quote from Richmond Browne (at the time a jazz pianist and theory instructor at Yale University): "The listener is constantly making predictions; actual infinitesimal predictions as to whether the next event will be a repetition of something, or something different. The player is constantly either confirming or denying the predictions in the listerner's mind. As nearly as we can tell (Krachenbuehl at Yale and I) the listerner must come out right 50% of the time-if he is too successful in predicting, he will be bored; if he is too unsuccessful, he will give up and call the music "disorganized." Thus if a player starts a repetative pattern, the listener's attention drops away as soon as he has successfully predicted that it is going to continue. Then, if the thing keeps going, the attention curve comes back up, and the listerner becomes interested in just how long the pattern is going to continue. Similarly, if the player never repeats anything, no matter how tremendous an imagination he has, the listerner will decide that the game is not worth playing, that he is not going to be able to make any predictions right, and also stops listening. Too much difference is sameness: boring. Too much sameness is boring-but also different once in a while." Food for thought?--Paul (Mindscape Explorer/Chapman Stick Player/Loopist)