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Y'know, i'm not all that concerned about getting devices that sound "out there". What I'd like are effects that sound GOOD! Not good as in "cool", but good as in doesn't trash the dynamics and detail of the original sound. Most effects boxes are guilty of this... Lexicon stuff is pretty good, but ART, Digitech, etc all sound dry and sterile to me. The best sounding digital effect I have is a DeltaLabs Echotron. I'm sure that on a bench test it sucks, but it's very sweet and warm-sounding in practice. How about this for an idea... build some genuine PCM digital delays, with knob-based interfaces? Forget MIDI and off-the-shelf A/D and D/A converters... that's what kills the music. I would love to see a device like the old EH 16 second delay, with an oscillator, reverse, etc, or something that sounds like the old DeltaLabs delays. Good SONICS has virtually nothing to do with good measurements. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort