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This makes me think of a particular musical experience, tho not loop-based (actually, I thought of it last night, so it's fresh). I was listening to an album by the Music Improvisation Company, a free improv group that included Derek Bailey, Jamie Muir (the brief King Crimson percussionist), Evan Parker, and others. I was alone, in total concentration, lost in the music. It built to a frenzy of sorts, then gradually quieted down into random pings, bleeps, scraping noises, etc. Those who know Derek Bailey know what I mean... At some point, I realized that sound was no longer coming from the stereo. The musicians had been silent for some time. I had been listening to background noise, thinking it was part of the music! Cars driving by, the heat kicking on and off, the cats scampering in the next room... all of these had become music. The musicians had integrated themselves into the environment, then left, and I didn't even notice. Kinda puts John Cage's trick into perspective, doesn't it? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort