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Discipline is a function of order. If a being functions and works within a set of rules without a second party enforcing these rules, that being is excersizing discipline. Bliss (or happiness) emerges from working within the rules to the point at which the rules are forgotten. I was thinking about this as I was driving home from my day job (grade school music teacher). Children work best under rules. This gives them a structure in which to be a well-behaved member of society. When this structure is not apparent or if the rules they are taught come in conflict with other thought patterns, they act out. In the same way, we react against patterns that come in conflict with our own models for existence. It's like trying to understand 13/8 when all you've heard is 6/8 or 4/4. Or trying to listen to something like Schoenberg when your concept of "classical" music is as contemporary as Beethoven. I personally try to teach that the exploration of these boundries reveals that they are only temporary at best and that they all are stepping stones to more abstract concepts that are still part of the same whole. Machines are the only truly disciplined beings: Work to your computational limit (and that's why I torture machines without pity). As you may guess, I'm not a very fun teacher. Later! Joe