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In a message dated 09/10/2000 9:13:27 AM Central Daylight Time, gregor.zavcer@kiss.uni-lj.si writes: << Can you explain me how can you tell if the music is honest when you hit play on the CD? >> I don't know about anyone else, but I know I can tell, and yet I don't know how to quantify that judgment. And, it may simply be honest about how fucked up it is, too. Things are revealed in music that are not revealed in direct, person-to-person experience. And every musical event involves two: the musician and the listener. Each brings his/her own frames of reference to the event. (Most American frames of reference are shaped by that BSb/Britney mentality, and it has always been so. Pop culture is what it is. This makes 'art' more difficult. Somewhere there are gray areas, too, and those who wish to subvert this paradigm.) Can you tell when another person is lying to you? It's the same question, really... I'm glad this thread has erupted this way... how it gets around to looping, I don't know, but these are things musicians should think about, loopers or not. All of the above is my judgment (IMFA). Kevin