Re: OT:Singing bowl measurements

[Pohon-Kelapa@t-online.de (Martin Tauchen)]

Hi James,


You are right.The instrument I mentioned was a Rudra Vina(been/bin).
As I were busy to find its name from my chaotic bookshelve,I saw
your mail and immidiately the name flashed up in my brain.
Nevertheless I checked it through my ancient diaries,to be sure.:-)

It is a long time ago,that I had this experience,so I was a little
doubtful,if my comments are correct.

I donīt want to pretend,that I am an expert in the classical indian
music,nor with its instruments.It was a unique experience for me and
it seems,that I was lucky to get a chance to hear the nearly extinctioned
Rudra Vian personally.
This Rudra Vina phenomen came back to my mind,when I read all this
entries about the singing bowl.

It seems,that there is also a relation to "hear tones" between the
body and the instrument.
And as Jack mentioned,it can be also have an opposite character.
The player hears a thin sound,but the audient gets a rich,fundamental
sound.

This needs at least a research,about the acousitc phenomens of such
instruments.A worse problem is,that this instruments are "fading" out.
It is already a problem,if traditional instruments still appear,but the
knowledge how to master them in the origin context,is going nearly to 
extinction.
The most worst case is,if already such instruments are going to
extinction.It means,that the musical background is already lost.

As simple E/Midi-Guitarist;i donīt have the qualification to speak about
such acoustic phenomens of indian classic music/instruments.
Nevertheless I am interested very much in this topics.


Marty













James Pokorny schrieb:
> 
> Martin wrote:
> >I had once had the chance to play a Sitar-like instrument.Not really a
> >Sitar-but also an indian instrument.Sorry-I forgot the correct name !
> >              (Have to do some research in my books)
> 
> >It could be described,that this instrument is only created for
> >the player only and not for audients.This instrument has a Sitar look,
> >with two resonance bodies(bowls?).One Pumpkinsized resonator near to
> >the headstock and one near the bridge.
> >Usually this instrument is made according to the body sizes of the
> >player.A body instrument relation.
> 
> The instrument you're describing is most likely the Rudra Vina, sometimes
> also called "been" or "bin."  This is perhaps the oldest 
>continuously-played
> stringed instrument in North Indian classical music.  Unfortunately it is
> becoming rarer and rarer, nearly to the point of "extinction."  :-(
> 
> A photo of the instrument, played by one of it's greatest performers, Zia
> Mohiuddin Dagar, can be found here:
> http://www.raga.com/219.html
> 
> There are some sound files of his playing as well:
> http://www.raga.com/sound.html
> These take some time to load, but are worth the wait.
> 
> >The drastic moment was,when I listened to the play of this instrument
> >as audient,with a distance of 2 meters to the play.The sound was
> >incredible thin and went on like "pling pling pling" or a non amplified
> >electric guitar.
> >The extreme happened,when I did hold this instrument in my own hands
> >and tried to play on it.The sound of it was fat and extraordinary.
> >How could this appear ? First thin and then fat sounding.
> 
> So true.  Despite the huge gourd resonators the sound does not carry 
>well,
> and needs extremely close miking to be heard in even a small auditorium.
> 
> >What happens ? This instrument-simply said- is resonating through the
> >whole body of the player.So he has the experience of a full fat sound.
> >If you are only audient,then only "Pling Pling" comes to your ear and
> >you donīt understand why the player is so fascinated about the sound.
> 
> I study and play the sitar and surbahar (a deep, bass sitar which was
> invented to mimic the sound of the rudra vina) and I have had somewhat of
> the opposite auditory effect occur repeatedly -- that while playing the
> instrument I "hear" a relatively thin and trebly tone,  but on listening 
>to
> recordings of my practice or performance I'm surprised to hear a much 
>deeper
> overall sound.  Both sitar and surbahar have a hollowed gourd as the main
> resonator, and are often fitted with a second gourd (more often spun 
>wood)
> resonator attached behind the pegbox.  But the greatest amount of 
>resonance
> actually comes from the hollow wooden neck of these instruments, which 
>has a
> greater density than the very thin shell of the gourd.  Unlike the rudra
> vina, the sitar/surbahar are not really in contact with one's body while 
>in
> playing position, except that the sitar's gourd rests on the instep of 
>one's
> foot.  The surbahar gourd generally rests directly on the floor.
> 
> To further complicate the issue, there is no "sound hole" on these
> instruments, therefore their projection is nowhere near as loud as an
> acoustic guitar.  Quite a paradox.  I sat recently for a surbahar lesson
> with my teacher, and when playing in the lowest octave I felt the 
>vibration
> from her instrument very distinctly through the floor, from a distance of
> about 1 meter!
> 
> >So the secret of this instrument could be the not only the 
>ear-instrument
> >interaction.It is also an interaction with the resonating capacity
> >of the body.Vibrations can be also recognized by the body.
> 
> I've heard similar stories from an Iranian musician who plays the 
>sehtar, a
> very small, delicate sounding four stringed long-neck lute, as well as 
>the
> tar, a larger and somewhat louder lute with a skin face stretched over 
>the
> wooden resonating chamber.  Neither of these instruments have sound 
>holes,
> and he's told me that he really needs to cradle the instruments against 
>his
> chest while playing "to get a good sound."
> 
> James