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>>>How much of this "new" music would people say is a derivitive of jazz? Often I'm considered a "new" musician (not my favorite term due to vagueness) or an "out" musician, but I really don't place much weight on jazz as part of my musical development. I've heard some Coleman and Davis albums, but really didn't weigh in on them that much. Maybe I'm young enough (age = 25) to have a feeling that this sort of stuff has "always existed".<<< I'm really really hoping that the term 'new' music will either disappear or be redefined! :o) there's so much in 'new' music that I love, so many artists operating under that banner that I really enjoy, but there is a huge amount of seeming obligation to play weird that can spoil things. I hear (anecdotally) that the London Musicians Collective (free/new music society in London) is incredibly narrow in terms of what they accept as 'out' enough... please correct me if I'm wrong, i hope I am... If it's what the artist hears, then total noise is cool - I'm not trying to limit what people play, in fact more wanting to free up everyone. (FWIW, new music is nowhere near as narrow as 'pop', but that's a lost cause...) labels like 'jazz' 'out' 'new' 'post-rock' blah blah blah can give some clue as to an artists orientation - and for some players, operating within a single field like that is where they are at, and that's cool - stylistic diversity isn't an end in itself - but for those who do cross the boundaries, it can be a real pain to have people labelling what they do... Bill Frisell, Michael Manring, DT, Tony Levin, and loads of others are happy to play 'out' or to drop into sweet melodic stuff without it sounding too 'knowing' or planned, it's just music. I find it hard to get gigs in London, cos i'm not really 'jazz' enough for the mainstream venues, and play too many tunes to play the 'out' venues. So, I put on my own gigs, pull decent crowds, and everyone's happy... so why i'm I complaining? dunno... ...it does make 'loop' music into a fascinating category, as it gives us continuity across any music style! hurrah for looperz Steve www.steve-lawson.co.uk