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I had a lot of fun with this technique using dinosaur Atari ST's and Notator software. Other hardware/software could easily do the same thing. It applies to midi loops, and probably only to home studio circumstances. 1 record a linear piece, pretty short, copy it a few times so it is already a kind of loop 2 set the Cycle parameters so the piece cycles between for example (start of ) bar 1 and bar 9 3 run the midi out to a second Atari or some other midi recorder. 4 while the master plays to the slave, shift the boundaries of the cycle in real time, so figuritively speaking; "the fat brown fox jumped over the lazy black dog" could become "the fat the fat the fat brown fox the fat brown fox jumped fox jumped fox jumped fox jumped over fox jumped over over over the lazy black dog lazy black dog black dog black dog dog the fat dog the fat" ...etc can you dig it? maybe modern computers with 2 programs running at once could handle this internally. I read somewhere a story in which the philosopher was talking to the king about repetition. PH: If I now say there is a lion in the courtyard, what would Your Majesty think? K: I would not believe it. PH: And if a guard should then say there is a lion in the courtyard? K: I would doubt it. Ph: And if a third person were to say the same? K: I would think there might be a lion in the courtyard. So if you have a message, "drum it in." John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/