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Thanks to ALL who replied to my questions, especially thanks to Hugo for the link. Well I heard what the "Resinator" can do, 3 filter sweeps with autopan , but couldn't buy it. ( discontinued) as Hugo pointed out there's already a MAM Resonator which is the same, and its available, and its even a bit cheaper at £139 , also found the MAM Warp 9 , which certainly seems to be a 'budget Sherman' . ...only with more possibilities , especially for making short loops evolve over a longer timespan. well they're both on their way , so if folks are interested I'll post a review andy butler (EDP waiting waiting)