Support
Looper's Delight
|
Support |
|
|
http://www.simpletech.com/wtb/wtb_irt.htm Respect, Damon Langlois Creative Director Electrix Tel (250) 544-4091 Fax (250) 544-4100 http://www.electrixpro.com -----Original Message----- From: hutton [mailto:hutton@pathcom.com] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 4:54 PM To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Subject: Re: Repeater and the CFC Want a laugh? ........ ask this man where you can purchase a 128mb SimpleTech CFC in Canada ....... Listen to his company's "Answer" ...... Note ,,,,, it is a Canadian company! "Damon Langlois (Electrix)" wrote: > >I saw your list of recommended CFC cards, included the SanDisk brand, >but > >didn't include the 64mb card. Would you recommend that card? I ask because > >there is a pretty good deal on these at my local Costco. > > It depends... The Sandisk cards work, they will record in stereo, and is are > very reliable cards. However the ones we tested did seem to have some minor > speed limitations with Repeater. With the cards tested, I was only able >to > record in stereo for about 3.5 minutes before repeater reports "CFC Slow" > and it stops recording (mono went for the entire 8 minutes with no > problems). This only comes up when you have a 64 MB card or higher, OR if > you are making extreeeeeeeeeeeemly long loops, OR if you are using Repeater > as a digital hard disk recorder because you went out and bought a 512 MB CFC > card. Considering most loops are only seconds long it's probably only a > minor limitation. The newer DaneElec and Simple tech cards seem to have >no > speed limitations with Repeater. Full stereo recording up to 8 minutes etc. > If you don't mind the minor speed limitations then you are probably o.k. and > will be very happy with the Sandisk card you are eyeballing. See if you can > arrange to try before you buy or get a return grantee and then you won't > have to worry. > > The following was written to the list earlier by Don, one of the >brainiacs > at Electrix who sweated blood to bring Repeater to life. > > Disclaimers: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1. The following is based on my experience and is my personal > opinion. It should not be taken to represent the official views > or position of Electrix/IVL Technologies. (even though the > conclusion is pretty much exactly the same). > > 2. The following only relates to CFC cards in the context of > their use with Repeater, and implies nothing about their > suitability or performance with ANY OTHER PRODUCT. > > 3. If you think I am being paranoid, I have been flamed badly > in the past. All this having been said, flame proof underpants > on and here goes... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I noticed the discussion starting around CFC buys. There is some > stuff on the Electrix website, and also on a flyer shipped with the > unit. However you do need to be aware of card specs - the only > real way to know things are going to be cool is to test Repeater > with the card you wish to use. Until specifications become a > perfect art, rather than a marketting tool, that is just the way it > is. > > Electrix has been doing a lot of testing with different CFC cards, > and our recommendations are based on the results of those > tests. > > Technobabble follows > --- > CFC card specs that are published from different manufacturers > seem to cover the following: > > Burst-mode rate (quoted ~6-10MB/sec). Ignore this. Unfortunately > everyone who designs a CFC interface needs to design for the > lowest common denominator anyway, making this spec worse than > useless IMHO. > > Read rate. Typically 800KB/sec -> 2MB/sec. Read rate is not > really the issue. Reading flash memory is pretty damn quick and > in Repeater accounts for a fairly small proportion of the time > consumed at the CFC interface. > > Write rate. Quoted (ahem!) 500KB/sec -> 1.5MB/sec. However > this is the long-term sustained rate, and depending on the card > manufacturer, the data caching algorithms they use, and a whole > load of other variables the short-term variance in write operation > latency can be huge. I know - I have pored over the logic analyser > and scope traces looking into this phenomenon until I went bug > eyed [still in recovery...]. > > CFC cards do some pretty nifty footwork under the hood to manage > the storage medium - including error recovery, bad sector > remapping, wear levelling etc... Also, writing is a cached > mechanism and there are additional time effects due to the caching > scheme used, the pattern of writes to the card and the amount of > cache available. > > The result of all of this is that an apparently fast card may > occasionally (or in the case of one card we tested, very often...) > take a long time to complete a write operation. Hit a few of these > long write operations in a row and all of a sudden Repeater will > have run out of write buffer space and will inform you that there is > an issue here... > > Most cards will handle the 'sequential' writing of mono operation > with no problems. Stereo operation is where most problems lie. > The pattern of writes to two .wav files can fight with the CFC > caching scheme and cause the card performance to be somewhat > less than desirable. > > So - that is the low down. > --- > > My advice is to read the specs (the faster card manufacturers will > quote them with pride. The slower card manufacturers will quote > them under a subtle disguise to make you think they are better > than they are...). Take all specs with a healthy dose of reserve. > > Then, if you can test a card before you buy, do. We are providing > information on cards we have thoroughly tested and are happy with > to help with purchase decisions. > > The Simple Technologies cards deliver. DaneElec also are just > dandy. This does not imply that other cards out there will not > also do just fine, but it provides a starting point. I hope that with > experience that this forum will provide more information about > good card choices for use with Repeater. We will also update > the information on the web site as more experience and test > results become available. > > Please consult the website and feel free to post questions > for us folks about CFC cards. We will be happy to occasionally > break the lurking mode and provide what information we can. > > Cheers, and I hope you folks have a *lot* of fun... > > Don Goodeve > > (of Rik Elswit's 'Don and the Maniacs' fame... I kind of like that > one...) > > ps. CFC technology is moving *damn* quick these days, and the > speed of cards will become less of an issue as time goes on. With > Repeater we had to design towards where we expected CFC > technology to be, and fortunately our Crystal Ball did a pretty good > job. > > Respect, > > Damon Langlois > Creative Director > Electrix > Tel (250) 544-4091 Fax (250) 544-4100 > http://www.electrixpro.com