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What a long thread. Can't read it all. Some comments off the top of my head (until I get back to the looping Nord Modular and sampler that are playing on my studio monitors). I ofttimes think the biggest trap in the gear business is the temptation to spring for a new piece of gear instead of working better with what you have. This hits hard for me, as I juggle two demanding artforms (music and video), a demanding, (albeit interesting) day gig, and the rest of my life. However, context matters -- to my own (admittedly biased) ears, my music took a quantum leap for the better after purchasing a Nord Mod last year. I can't tell if Evan's complaints about knob twiddling are complaints about the lack of more 'direct' physical activity, or complaints about the lack (to his ears, anyway) of musicality in the results. A lot of the music I've been making lately involves setting up a complex evolving system (usually each of 4 slots of the Nord looping independently and sometimes passed into echo devices), and tweaking gently. I can relate to Evan's comments about mud when six loopers were improvising collectively. Even with non-looping instruments, six free improvisers often turn to mud unless they come with very big ears. Indeed, when I do duet jams in my studio, I can see how easy it is for two free improvisers to create mud when looping electronics are involved. (Oftimes, one is sufficient(-;) -- Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at http://www.foryourhead.com "There were so many things there that are not anywhere else in the world. There were millions of people, the strange reflective bars of the buildings and the shiny and shimmering towers that seemed like a fairy tale" -- David-Michael Cook Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D. Video Producer Image Processing Specialist Video for your HEAD! Boris FX http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com