RE: David Torn EDP manual

["Lanpheer, James A" <Lanpheer.James.A@broadband.att.com>]

If using looping tools was so 'intuitive' and straightforward, there would
be no "Loopers Delight" or at least, there'd be alot less interesting
discussion and participation, imo.  So, count your blessings and enjoy the
interaction and sharing of information!
; )
cheers,
jim.
p.s.  Andre's suggestions for improving EDP knowledge and use are what i've
been doing and its really helped me.  I spend an evening focusing on making
loopage that emphasizes the use of a particular subset of the EDP.  And
then, i determine if its helpful to what i want to do or not.  Actually,
simply going thru the steps of programming my MFC10 to control the EDP has
increased my knowledge of and ability to use of the EDP significantly.  Its
a discipline like any other.  Unfortunately, i have a job, so there's the
discipline of learning the EDP (on top of the discipline of tabla
studies).... (on top of the discipline of general rhythm studies).... (on
top of the discipline of pulling out the sax occasionally).... on top
of...well, you get the idea, not enough time... ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: Hedewa7@aol.com [mailto:Hedewa7@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:28 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: David Torn EDP manual


among other things, ms said:
>> Also, I think it's unfair to compare the EDP, or any piece of gear, to
>an instrument,
>> unless you're talking about bagpipes!  My guitar has an incredibly 
>simple
>interface!
>> Put your finger in a position on the neck and a particular note will
>play.  The end. 
well, uhhh..... not intending to be difficult, here, but:
that certainly does not cover the way i approach the guitar..... or any of 
the other instruments i play, for that matter.....
 
then, among other things, andré said:
>If you want to engage any particular function on the EDP, it's a
>question of hitting a button or two.  Multiply?  Hit the "multiply"
>button.  Unrounded Multiply?  Hit Multiply and end with Record.  That's
>no more complex than putting the finger on the fret and striking the
>note, to me.  
>The physical interface is very straightforward, I think. 
while handily done for what the edp actually offers (and at a 
price-point), 
it is not nearly physically reflective of what's technically available, 
esp.

as the software has developed.
straightforward? yup:
it's a buncha buttons (and a pedal and a knob) accessing multi-layered
menus.
physical interface?
still a long way to go..... but the best available.

anyway, pls don't misunderstand me, here:
i loves my edp: for me, looping without it would be, well, like living in
the 
past.....

>And again,
>just about all of the functions in the EDP - including the vast
>DirectMIDI implementation in LoopIV - 
jahwohl:
good, that.....

>essentially originate from
>something which can be executed using one or two front-panel button
presses.
sort of..... if you don't include 'paging' to the menu-function, right?

>But as you say, the theory behind the interface is another story
>altogether, and the "theoretical" angle of the EDP is a big part of what
>makes it so powerful. 
yes, but these are different arenas: the theoretical angle/approach of the 
edp (ie, the edp's capabilities), and the human interface with same.
the edp's angle & approach sure suits me fine; the interface improved 
vastly

w/loopIV's midi-imp, but still leaves some folk flustrated:
the legacy of the multi-tiered menu-approach conveys a certain opacity to 
many musicians from what is ---in effect--- really an extremely visceral 
instrument. 
 
>Just like you need to learn what sorts of notes
>work against what sorts of chords, so too does trying different
>combinations of functions and parameters produce different sorts of
results.
truth.
nothing wrong w/seeking a little guidance, though, especially if one is 
confounded by the UI.

>But finding out how to communicate all of this stuff is not easy - the
>sort of examples and features that would be used for learning Matthias'
>incredibly smooth, fluid, graceful "ambient folk" style would be totally
>different from how I would teach the glitch technique, the turntablist
>technique, etc.  
true, but:
a well-produced video manual/tutorial might exhibit *indicators* into what 
a

hardcore-user may consider to be all the primary 'pathways'; every last 
little thing needn't be exemplified in such a work, just clear pointers to 
the main routes.....
dontcha think? or.....

>So writing a tutorial begs the question: what style of playing are you
>trying to tutor a person in, anyway?
if it is a tutorial that accompanies the unit, one may not wanna 
evangelise 
one style as opposed to any other.....
where different types of technique are available, one will need to make 
'stylistic' choices in individual regions of the tutorial.
that being said:
if it is a self-produced tutorial, or the manufacturer has a particular 
musical/stylistic bent, then one can promote whatever agenda is currently 
being entertained.....

>If someone wants to play ambient
>soundscapes, should they have to sit through a lesson in my skipping CD
>player routine?
..... so long as they get something they need at some point, well..... why 
not?
  
>If somebody wants to lay down chords and then solo over
>them for five days with different NextLoop and AutoRecord strategies,
>will a lesson in Matthias' style go over their heads?
maybe, but: see above.
and:
maybe not, depending on the communication skills of the presenter(s) and 
the

edit-flow.

>This is stuff I've been wrestling with (and continue to wrestle with) as
>I've thought about the Santa Cruz clinic, and now as I gear up for some
>"serious" videos.  I could easily imagine spending several hours talking
>about different things I do with the EDP, and that would only cover the
>areas of the unit I use myself - which is by no means the full depth and
>breadth of the unit.
>Oh well...
sounds like:
ya gotta decide what the goal of this project is to be.....
in-depth presentation of everything? help for novices? touching all bases? 
promote IMI-IBI, ambient, glitch, FSU, quasi-turntablism, or continue the 
legacy of frippertronics?
choices, choices.....
i know where i'd go with it, dude!
call me if you want any lousy advice.....
*-))

the r*d to h*ll is paved w/f*c**d-u* int*nti*ns,
dt / splattercell