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loop4 When a Multiply is finished by an Insert you only keep the part of the loop between the start of the Mult and the start of the Insert. (This is added to the stuff that you Insert) When Insert is finished by Mult, you start to Multiply the original Loop plus the Insert. As expected but the cycle count puts the one on the first cycle after the Insert. In Loop3 ( if I remember) things are different, (I don't think you cut the end off the loop with Mult.Insert) ...but you lose the Cycle structure of the Loop, it becomes one big Cycle. andy butler (Loop3 amnesiac)