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Is there an estimate of decay time based on position of feedback dial? For instance, how long will it take for a layer to decay completely if the feedback dial is positioned at 3 O'clock? 12 O'clock? 9 O'Clock? Regards, Jeff On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 15:00, Michael Clark wrote: > The red pill or the blue pill? Both! > > M... > > > At 11:30 PM 8/13/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Oh my, it's some loop philosophy... how can I resist? 8() > > > >How ya doin', Rick? > > > >"Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" wrote: > > > >> Matthias (whose music I adore and who I consider a good new friend) > >> wrote: > >> > >> "I just shortly repeat what Kim an me pointed several time at on >this > >> list: > >> With FB constantely at max, the loop turns into a ball on a >chain: The > >> phrase you started with keeps you in the same mood, you cannot evolve >when > >> you feel its time, just revolve, chopp off... ;-" > >> > >> This can happen, certainly, but there are many ways of making >music. > >> I, personally, am not a fan of Jazz Fusion as an example, > >> but to categorically state that this music keeps you in the same mood > >> because I don't happen to enjoy the form is absurd. > > > >I personally didn't take Matthias' comment as an aesthetic judgement at > >all. To me, it's an expression of a technical concern, and a very > >important and valid one at that: what do you do with a loop once you've > >built up a texture, if you don't have feedback control? > > > >I would speculate that the comment about "the same mood" is not a > >reflection of Matthias' personal listening taste, but rather the > >loopists' challenge when working with a loop without feedback: how do > >you evolve the texture aside from either overdubbing more and more > >layers to it (thereby creating an ever-denser texture), and/or ending it > >abruptly (which are the two possibilities Matthias described in his > >original remark)? > > > >Feedback is an incredible tool for this sort of thing, and Matthias' > >incredibly fluid and organic style would be unthinkable without it. > >It's just like I couldn't imagine doing what I like to do without a > >momentary Replace function (and, increasingly, 8th/cycle quantization, > >cycle-quantized loop switching, DirectMIDI, etc. etc.) - that's MY own > >solution to how I develop a loop and change its direction. (Ironically > >enough, I can regularly play a whole concert without ever touching the > >feedback control...) > > > >> I love repetition, personally. I have loved Terry Riley, Philip >Glass, > >> Hamza El Din, Reggae, et. al. > > > >I like their stuff too. And I would point to works like "In C" or > >"Music For 18 Musicians" as good general examples of the sort of > >principle Matthias is talking about: the idea that you can evolve the > >loop by fading various elements in and out of the picture, and that over > >time, the entire textural content of a basic "loop" can completely > >change and evolve, in subtle and organic ways. > > > >> It's really o.k. if Kim or Mattias don't. But let's keep our > >> communications and our aesthetic biases clear. A personal aesthetic > >> predilection is exactly that: a personal predilection. It's ok >to have > >> them without being judgemental about others. > > > >I don't believe either Kim or Matthias are opposed to repetitive music - > >if they were, they'd very likely find something to do with their lives > >other than design looping software! 8() > > > >And in the case of Kim and Matthias, it's important to remember that > >you're talking about two guys who have designed several versions of a > >software which is utterly without peer in its particular focus and > >design angle. There are things the EDP was doing in its software > >version 8 years ago that STILL haven't been duplicated or matched. I > >can only imagine how frustrating it must sometimes be to have spent so > >much time working on an instrument that's still so underrated and > misunderstood. > > > >So I'm all for discussing these expanded possibilities, because it > >increases the general understanding of the tools of the trade. And it > >also allows a fascinating insight into some of the creative corners of > >the design process in general. For instance, the EDP's > >painstakingly-programmed 127 discreet feedback values assume a > >tremendous amount of significance when you see and hear Matthias' > >seamless work. Some of the more "out there" Echoplex functions make > >more sense when you find out that Kim Flint is a big hip-hop, jungle, > >and heavy metal fan. > > > >I think it's fantastic that there are folks like yourself, Rick, who are > >making great music with very simple units like a DL4. But I also think > >it's important to make people in general aware of the possibilities that > >lie beyond simply recording, repeating, and overdubbing. A lot of these > >techniques are not very difficult to use, they already exist in many of > >the devices people presently own, and they can open tremendous doors > >into different technical and aesthetic avenues. > > > >It's one thing to choose to work within very tight technical > >constraints, the way you have. But it's another thing to be unwittingly > >constrained by one's own expectations of the parameters that are > >available, simply because they never explored the other options out > >there, you know? > > > >> Everyone is Creative. I think there is a disturbing trend in >western > >> culture specifically to be perfectionistic and judgemental. > >> I think that we, as artists and loopers have a great opportunity to > >> reverse this trend (if only in a small,small way) and actively support > >> people's creativity. It's all good. > > > >I agree that it's important to encourage people to do their thing. But > >I also adamently feel that it's JUST as important to approach an art > >form from a respectfully critical point of view. > > > >In other words, don't just settle for what's commonly available. Don't > >just work within the parameters of what we commonly associate with these > >tools. Don't just accept that looping HAS to sound a certain way. > > > >Why shouldn't we challenge ourselves - and one another - in a healthy, > >respectful, encouraging way, to go beyond what we expect, and what we > >already know we can do? > > > >I haven't seen anything that Kim or Matthias have said that I would > >describe as disrespectful to other people's music. Can they be blunt? > >You bet. Direct? Absolutely. Fed up with the status quo? For sure. > >Challenging? I sure HOPE so. But I think that's how any art form grows > >and develops - by having a healthy dissatisfaction with the way things > >are already done. > > > >Maybe this is easy for me to say, Rick, since I've heard both of these > >gentlement express their very deep respect and appreciation for your > >music. So I know they're not knockin' ya... far from it, in fact. > > > >Well damn, I guess this is a brain spew and a half. Time to get back to > practicing! > > > >Hope y'all are well tonight. > > > >Woo hah, > > > >--Andre LaFosse > >The Echoplex Analysis Pages: > >http://www.altruistmusic.com/EDP > > > > > >