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Hi C, thanks so much for the perspective of the audience's involvement in a show. I completely agree. To me at least, music is to be enjoyed as an immersive experience. Smiles, CQ At 01:25 PM 8/28/02 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:45 AM 8/28/2002 -0700, Jonathan El-Bizri wrote: > >>Hip-hop/Rap = sampling and presequencing, rather than loop performance >>Hip-hop/Rap = everything done in the studio >>Hip-hop/Rap = amazingly lackluster live shows for audiences who've never >>seen better > >I'd also disagree, even though I'll readily admit I hate most Rap/Hip-hop >(that's merely my own personal taste, however, and not a blanket judgment >of the musical form). > >As to the first criticism, there's nothing wrong with sampling and >presequencing, if done properly, as it can provide a structure within >which >to work and improvise. As for loop performance, I believe that Per >already >brought up that one is just as able to "loop" using vinyl as an EDP. > >The second criticism, if I'm reading it correctly, implies that there is >no >spontaneity in this type of music, which is just not true. Even moreso >than most other popular music, Rap and Hip-hop are vocally centered and >not >primarily instrumental musics. In performance, there can be a huge >amount >of spontaneity and improvisation from the lead rapper(s). The >instruments >primarily exist to serve as a backdrop for the vocals, however. That >doesn't necessarily mean that "everything is done in the studio". > >Finally, the last criticism is the one I find most contentious, but since >my background is more in electronica let me give you an example based in >that experience (I think it applies equally to some of the better Hip-hop >shows I've seen). I've gone to a lot of different techno concerts, one >of >which was a Crystal Method show I attended a while back. This show >happened to be particularly good, and within the first ten minutes >everybody in the club was bouncing off the walls -- literally, it was >nearly impossible to keep from merging into the mass of dancing >bodies. The important thing was not how much was sequenced/pre-prepared >(a >large chunk of it was) or how much was re-arranged/improvised (an equally >large chunk was, as well), but rather that the guys up on stage could >have >utterly disappeared and it wouldn't have mattered. > >What am I talking about? Well, what really mattered was that the >musicians >had constructed an environment where the audience could become completely >lost in the experience, then, for all intents and purposes, the two guys >onstage became utterly irrelevant and vanished. The concert became a >tribal experience with all members of the audience actively >participating, >rather than some sort of spectator event with all attendant merely >gawking >at the stage. The performers were merely facilitators. > >The point is that not every show has to be centered around the >self-aggrandization of the musician's ego, as the majority of "rock >concerts" seem to be. Rather, the performance can be an event where the >artist strives to make himself invisible so that the audience can lose >themselves in the group experience. This type of concert lends itself >poorly to recording and documentation, however, and if it is viewed from >the outside rather than as an active participant, it's extremely easy to >judge such an event as 'lackluster'. > >Finally, I do have to add that there are crappy artists out there >performing crappy concerts. But the same can be said of every other >musical genre out there. YMMV, all standard disclaimers apply, caveat >emptor, post no bills... > > -c- > >_____ >"i want to reach my hand into the dark and *feel* what reaches back" > -recoil > > --- "The only things I really think are important, are love, and eachother. -Then, anything is possible..." http://home.earthlink.net/~thefates Please visit The Guitar Cafe. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the-guitar-cafe