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Hey Loopers, has anyone of you experience with what Douglas Hofstadter calls "strange loops" in a musical sense? Hofstadter uses the mentioned term in his book Gödel, Escher, Bach for strange recursions of any kind. He starts by giving an example of canons by JS Bach which progress chromatically, i.e. when one voice of the canon has been played once, it ends one tone higher and is thus repeated the second time transposed, and so on... While working on my next heavily loop-based album "Sauflieder Band 2: Extreme Ambient Terror", I got the idea that the inherent pitch-shifting possibilities of the Repeater would make it easy hardware-wise to do this kind of thing.(anyone else can of course do exactly the same what I'm about to describe using another looper and an external pitch shifter...) *** WARNING !!! LONG MUSIC THEORY BABBLE AHEAD *** One of my studies is based on a harmonic progression which, starting in the key of C, goes like this: Cm D7 Fm6 G7 Cm7 Ebm7 F#7 F taking a look at the functions of these chords in a C scale (and ignoring for one moment 7ths and 6ths et al), we have: t DD s D t Dp DS(sub) S (t tonic, d dominant, s subdominant, p parallel, g antiparallel, sub substitution, uppercase=major, lowercase=minor)) This works ok as a strange plagal turnaround (which GF handel did like a lot) in C key. But if we take a look at the last chords and assume for one moment we're in Bb minor, this becomes: ...dd s DD(sub) D ...so we can append here the start of the loop transposed two semitones downward. But there's more: Assume we have the loop running in reverse, the first chord is F, so let's assume for one moment we're in the key of F, the functions of the second half (= the first half reversed) become: ...DD t sG d which is ok. But if we again do the analysis in the key of G (which is incidentially F transposed one step up), we get: ...T dG D s ...and again, we can append the start (=the end) of the loop transposed two semitones upwards. So we have a loop which we can either run as is, and it makes sense harmonically, or we can "think differen" and just pitch down two steps for each round, and after seven rounds, we're back in the key of C. And if we change our mind halfway, we just kick in reverse, and progress back up. Another step I took was using polyphonic lines which tend to transpose themselves (in the Bach way) and even make sense when combined in different transpositions. Take the following passive theme (=a bassline): C Bb D C E Ab C This is based on a wholetone scale, so the conventional harmonic functional theory does not apply in exactly the same way. Still, we have at the end a progression which is centered around Bb, and if seen reversed at the end (=the beginning) an ascending line leading to D. So again, we can use this loop to transpose down in one and up in the other direction. What makes the use of the scale extra appealing is the fact that the notes of the scale stay the same no matter where I transpose, thus, I can use a steady active theme (=a melody) and have it running forwards and backwards and do similair tricks. Of course, it is also interesting here to use an active theme which does similair things. One I worked out transposes upwards, and I have two copies of it on adjacent tracks of the repeater, on of them recorded forward and one reverse. So the bassline and the melody either transpose in opposite directions (forward) or in unisono (backward). What makes this a little bit tricky is the modus operandi: I currently use a FCB1010 to transpose the bassline to its 7 discrete levels and to switch into reverse, at the same time sending mute/unmute commands to the two tracks containing the melody forward and reverse, and use a keyboard to control the two melodies' pitch. So much of thinking aloud for today...and here back to my question: has any of you ever done anything similair, and perhaps is able to offer some useful hints (either for use of equipment to realize this stuff, or, more importantly, hints for composing this way). And if you didn't do anything like this before...look forward to my next CD! Rainer Rainer Straschill Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs