RE: 1st Loop Workaround in Ableton's LIVE 4.0

["sarth" <sarth@sarth.net>]

> And the problem is that the Ableton Live time-stretch engine is tempo-
> based,
> that is, it takes the current tempo and "lock" the recorded sample to
that
> tempo and then use that as a base for the realtime time-stretching
> calculations.
> 
With all deference to your greater expertise, I don't believe this is
true. Perhaps I misunderstand what you are explaining,

Live has the ability to defeat the time-stretching functionality on any
sample. So having the software extract the tempo from the object length
on a non-timestretched sample should actually be a relatively simple
task. This is a one-click operation in Logic, a drag and drop in Kyma,
and a two footswitch press on the Adrenalinn.

Cheers,

-- Sarth

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tias [mailto:tias@condomo.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:35 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: 1st Loop Workaround in Ableton's LIVE 4.0
> 
> > > I can't give an articulate defense, Per, but  someone once
explained
> > > to me
> > > why it is a much more difficult thing
> > > to accomplish '1st loop capability' in a VST plugin that has to
work
> > > inside
> > > of a host program.
> >
> > You're probably right about that (I have no programming skills
either).
> > But Live IS a host application, not a VST plug-in. Let's see what
they
> > crammed into L4! The online looping community will once again be
> > cooking with all kinds of workaround hints ;-)
> 
> Maybe this can shed some light on the situation. ;)
> 
> A VST-plugin cannot do first loop since the VST-standard doesn't
support
> slaving a Host to a Plugin, at the moment it's only possible to slave
a
> Plugin to the Host. Maybe with some nifty hacking and coding-skills it
> would
> be possible to do a midi-hack in the plugin that enables it to Send
> midi-tempo out and then use something like Hubi's Midi-loopback to
slave
> the
> Host to that midi-data.
> 
> Which leads to the fundamental problem of the "First loop"-function.
To
> calculate the tempo of First loop, as far as i know, you first have to
set
> how long the loop is in meassures instead of tempo. That is, if the
first
> loop is 1/4 long and the first loop recorded is 2 seconds long then we
> have
> 4 beats on 2 seconds resulting in 120 bpm, if we instead record a loop
> that
> is 1 second long then we have the same amount of meassures but in a
> shorter
> time thus doubling the tempo.
> 
> And the problem is that the Ableton Live time-stretch engine is tempo-
> based,
> that is, it takes the current tempo and "lock" the recorded sample to
that
> tempo and then use that as a base for the realtime time-stretching
> calculations.
> 
> So based on this it's virtually impossible to include a first loop
> function
> into Live unless they rewrite the whole sample-engine. OR just add a
> separate FirstLoop function that can be turned on instead of the
> Tap-function.
> 
> On another note:
> I'm having trouble (financial problems) getting hold of a Mac so I can
> compile my VST-LiveLooping plugin so my plan for now is to start
> beta-testing on PC for the moment and only do release-compiles for the
Mac
> later on. So anyone who's interested in Beta-testing the plugin can
> register
> at http://www.condomo.com/4um
> 
> /Tias
> 
>