Re: EDP Undo questions

[Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>]

I started an answer on that too and was not satisfied.
Kim and Andy helped, but not quite acurately
seems amazingly complicated :-(

>to be clearer, Short-Undo removes the latest overdub from the time 
>that Undo was pressed,
>to the "beginning" of the loop .

hmm... that "beginning" sounds wrong to me...  or you wanted to say 
LongUndo?

>so if you record a phrase, and hit a wrong note at the end, you can hit
>Short-Undo just before the last  note, and erase only that note

thats a good one

>so your  case, hitting Short Undo between the 2 overdubs you just 
>made would just erase
>the second one

my version:
depends on when you press Undo:
pressed between second 2 and 8, even a short Undo will remove all your 
Overdub
pressed between second 8 and 10, LongUndo will remove all
pressed between second 10 and 2, LongUndo will remove the Overdub 
between 10 and 2

or:
Undo moves exactly one loop length back
LongUndo removes one loop length plus the bit between loopstart and 
the moment you press.

in fact its a little bit more complicated, because we also have 
AutoUndo happening at loopend if nothing changed during the last 
repetition. So an Undo shortly before loopend may do almost nothing, 
while pressed shortly after loopend (after AutoUndo happened, you can 
see the left green dot flash) may errase more.
To make this effect less drastic (but even harder to understand), we 
also help the user that tries to hit at loopstart with a little 
rounding process, so it does not matter whether he presses shortly 
before or after the loopstart :-)


>>>Next, say I record an initial loop of 10 seconds.  On playback I start
>>>an Overdub at second 8 and let it continue for 4 seconds, spilling
>>>over into another repetition of the loop.  Now I press Long-Undo.
>>>
>>>Does the last layer contain just the second half of the overdub, or
>>>will it remove all 4 seconds?
>>
>>Just the second half. If you do 2 long-undo's you would get both. 
>>(easier if you use MIDI so you don't have to actually hold the 
>>button down and can send that undo command directly.)
>>
>>>If it contains only the second half, will it fade the first half of
>>>the overdub to prevent an audible pop?
>>
>>no, in that case there would not be a crossfade. I guess it is 
>>possible for a pop to happen then, although usually you have some 
>>other audio going underneath the overdub so it is not so likely to 
>>be audible.
>>
>>kim
>
>If you use Multiply (with Quantise=OFF) for just one loop to add 
>your overdubs  then you can overdub over exactly one loop,

thats good

>and redefine the Loop Start Point at the same time.

Is that true? we have two start points.
one is defined by Multiply as you say and makes the loopLED blink.
the other one is fixed since the first record and is the one we sync 
to. its the cycle start close to loopstart so can be the start of the 
first or last cycle.
The only way to change this one is the StartPoint function and 
Multiply-Record.

>Then you can always get rid of that "overdub" with one Long-Undo

no, LongUndo erases from the "first cycle start point", not "Multiply 
start point" :-)


If you think this is confusing, consider that its complicated also 
for me, but that all this "elastic" treatment of startpoints is what 
makes the EDP so intuitive and aparently hard to imitate.

also, we still have a lack of defined expressions for the two kinds 
of loopstart/end (but, since we are talking of real loops, start and 
end is always the same spot :-)
-- 


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