RE: Circular Logic In-Time, live midi clock sync possibilities

["Michael Stauffer" <michael@circular-logic.com>]

Hey Griff,

I'm the developer with the Circular Logic software InTime. Yes, you can
set InTime up to follow a live drummer, either by using mic's and
audio-to-midi software, or by using relatively inexpensive drum
triggers - there's a discussion about setting up InTime with a drummer on
our site:
http://www.circular-logic.com/docs/Drummer_setup_tips.html

As for Live, I've been messing with it myself for doing the kind of
tempo-changing live-looping you're talking about - really cool software.
The InTime video demo on our site actually uses Live to playback loops
with tempo-changing while I play guitar:
http://www.circular-logic.com/videos.html

You've probably read already in this list that the setup for remote
control in Live is awkward in some ways, and I recommend using Control
Aid to simplify any midi-trigger setup you use.

Ableton Live will do all the time-stretching, really nicely, like you
hope, but there are two catches when using it with something like InTime

1) Live doesn't get the "warp points" (the sync points) of a loop
correctly when the loop is recorded while the tempo is changing. So, if
you record while InTime is changing the tempo, the loop doesn't play back
in sync after you've finished recording it. I've tested this problem by
using sources of tempo change other than InTime, and it's an oversight in
Live's programming. It should be relatively easy for them to fix - since
Live always know the tempo and the location of the beat during recording,
it should be able to set the warp points using this information. Instead,
after you record a loop while the tempo is changing, Live seems to treat
it as a loop with overall steady tempo, and thus gets the warp points
wrong. I've told Ableton about this problem, but if you were also to let
them know that this is a drawback for you, it might help speed them along
their way to fixing it. :)  I posted a message about this in the user
forum a couple months back if you want to look at it in more detail, or
just ask me. It's pretty easy to workarond this, though - you can setup a
midi trigger to disable/enable InTime's tempo-tracking, then when you
want to record a loop you first disable the tracking so that InTime runs
at a steady tempo, then reenable it when you want to jam and have the
drummer control the tempo.

2) Live averages the incoming midi clocks over about 2 beats, so its
response to tempo changes from InTime is somewhat dulled, but still very
functional, as you can see in the video demo on our site.

InTime for Mac OS X is still in public beta, but I'm readying it for
release as we speak and it will be available soon.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Michael

>Are there any mac users with experience with Circular Logic "In-Time"
>software? I'm also looking at KTDrum Trigger and Control Aid.
>
>I'm a guitarist, mac OSX user, and I want to be able to record audio
>live onstage, store it in the computer, and play it back whenever I need
>it during the song.
>
>That part seems easy enough, but I want to keep the tempo of the
>recorded audio/midi/whatever in sync with the live performance of the
>band onstage.
>
>For example, the live band starts playing a song onstage without a click
>track or any headphones, etc...
>
>1- The software "listens" to the audio input from a mic or trigger on
>the drum kit and interprets a tempo and creates a midi sync master
>clock.
>
>2- I hit a pedal to start recording, play a guitar part and then hit a
>pedal again to store it for later playback. It's very important to me
>that the recording in & out points are quantized automatically based on
>the midi clock sync.
>
>3- The band keeps playing... I want that original guitar riff back in
>again on top of what is now happening later in the song.
>
>4- I hit another pedal- the original riff comes back in perfect sync,
>even though the band may have sped up or slowed down slightly. Whatever
>needs to be done to the original riff (timequeezing, etc) happens
>automatically.
>
>Would Ableton Live 4 be the best host for this scenario?
>
>My drummer is incredibly gifted. His timing is killer. I want to have
>the midi clock follow the live band in realtime.
>
>Does this sound doable? Has anyone pulled this off already?
>
>I crave some feedback, because I'm a guitarist, not a software engineer.
>I know what I want to do, but I'm afraid there's a big, lonely
>learning-curve.
>
>Thanks to all,
>
>Griff Peters
>www.griffpeters.com
>