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I can work with this defintion for practical purposes.Any sort of definition,model ,paradigm etc.is only useful for organizing data it's quite reasonable in that sense.But I find it too narrow for examining the unfoldment of cultural patterns over time and as ideas travel mind to mind. Once the human stops inputting new signal is it no longer a loop? An experiment that yeilds interesting enough results leads to further explorations that involve refienments,and variations-bifurcations.A series these branchings,adding complexity exponentially will lead to several temporary end points that resemble each other little,but have a common source. Perhaps most of this list is more intersted in talking about gear than abstract overviews ,cultural reifications and reframings. <html><div></div></html> _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963