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Great topic - Some random thoughts - In response to Ted's recent post -- I think we all live in two worlds and although I often long for "purity" and a one-sided answer to things, my peace of mind increased when I realized that no matter what answer I found, the opposite is often just as true. A mandala-type of thinking where any one idea can be placed on a point on the mandala and is understood to be balanced by its opposite. Or as Jung says, maturity is the ability to contain the opposites. Practically speaking, to me this means that: 1 - There is room for both types of creativity - creative productions by dedicated artists where there IS a "better" and "worse" -- e.g., someone professing to be a singer is generally better if they can sing in tune (if that's the kind of music they're presenting), can move an audience emotionally and intellectually, has a powrful voice, has something original to say -- or, perhaps in a context like Indian raga singing, can present the tradition in an authentic and accomplished way. AND A playful creativity whose point is not to create a refined "product" (and I do not use the word pejoratively) but to provide a consciousness-changing experience that is valid in and of itself. Brenda Ueland, a wonderful creative writing teacher (I highly recommend her book "If you Want to Write"), when asked why she taught creative writing to working class people replied, (paraphrasing here) "Because I know of nothing else that takes peoples' minds off of being consumers better than creativity." Looping has led me (inspired by Yon's recent womanly loopers posts) to give improvisational singing classes for anyone who wants to come, no matter their musical skills. My solo looping has many aspects, one of which is just a meditation for myself, another is a "better/worse" art which I present in concert and which I hope is an accomplished music and which I spend time practicing to make it, hopefully, better. My singing classes are totally process-oriented - this is purely about creating a space for people to connect in a fun way with themselves and others. Playing games with music, intimacy and consciousness. "No mistakes" is the rule. Process, not product. As far as the self-esteem issue, the best writing about this is Kenny Werner's "Effortless Mastery"- it's really worth reading, he talks about many musicians basing their self-esteem on how good their music is that day, and how unhealthy that is. My favorite quote -- "When a musician is not linked to some higher purpose, his natural desire is to impress others. That desire cuts the depth out of the music."