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You guys ever thought of putting the loopers through some sort of tube preamp? The digital sound is something that grinds on my ear nerves. As far as randomizing what is not random, you spend so much time doing this that it is a bust in my mind. I could spend the time doing something else like playing music. I'm still not even messing with my two EDPs. They just sit and I play with long envelopes of sound through processors. I know they can do a whole mess of things but the whole idea of randomization of improvisation and the fixing of an item is incongruous although what you guys are saying seems right. I did take a loop and run it through a processor set for noise and it was OK cool but the sound degenerated so bad that I went through my signal chain to see if I had something wrong but it was solid. They are doing marvelous things with putting a modeler through a 12ax7 tube. I heard a Vox amp, a Valvetronix that used this combination of tube and modeling and it was very nice and natural. What about tubing up an EDP? Make sense? I don't know at what point in the Vox the tube was. I figure in the front end of the signal? Dunno. Still clueless, Larry Cooperman New Millennium Guitar http://www.newmillguitar.com