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it seems to me that far over 90% of the ever played music ended in the same theme as it started in, because its basically showing a single picture. There may be some dynamic, even a story in the middle, a natural way to show a picture is to show its total first, then go into details, back to the total, some other detail .... and close at the total. But movies, literature and real life follow different rules: Often the end tries to remind of the beginning, but the story really grows from one situation into a irreversible different situation. Music can be like that and still be easy to follow. Only most musicians are hardly able to play like that and claim that the public wants some ABACA... structure... probably a reminder of old dance styles and polite forms... and simply a help for the memory... easy composing... ? While Photographs will continue to make sense, experience Movie! :-) Minimalists slowly do it. Free improvisers try, with lots of crashes... a great challenge! Loopers that reduce Feedback inevitably do it, safely. Loopers using several tracks or units may do it, in a less linear way. There may be better algorithms, still... I have written arround this many times, but the messages crystallize more and more over the years: use BrotherSync ! to play together. Enjoy to complement your friends sound with yours without the typical "share of work": base - solo. Each one has the tool for the base and can talk freely with the others, no danger to loose the base. use more Melodies (and noises) than Chords ! because they leave more space for your partners and yourself to bend your idea. the harmonies turn into the interpretation for the basic melodies or the result of multiple melodies instead of the usual prison for the solo... use Feedback ! and learn to develop (not just grow) fluently. More evolution and less revolution. constantly reduced Feedback brings the constant development and is interesting, but would not be enough for me. My loop trip started when I inserted a volume pedal in the FeedBack loop of the Roland 3000 delay. To tell a story we should be able to control the evolution factor and alter between traveling and contemplating phases. Some units do some freeze or reduce Feedback automatically while Overdubbing. Interesting simplification. Fits to the reality that when we take new steps, we slowly get away from the old... It reminds me of walking backwards because we see the old stuff fade but dont see the new coming. A training to deal with destiny... maybe repetition is needed to reduce fear? happy looping (and dealing with material world...) Matthias -- ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org