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Mike, I think by comparing people talking about EDP or Repeater vs. Digitech Jamman or Boss RC20XL to knocking down people who don't have a Taylor or Martin, you are missing the point somewhat. The way I understood most of the messages dealing with the Digitech Jamman or Boss RC20XL, these messages said that both devices seem to be targeted at a somewhat different set of use cases than the ones employed by the majority of artists here on this list. This has nothing to do with knocking down anyone because he hasn't a Martin instead of his Takamine, rather because he has a Martin instead of a Klein and wants to use it to play death metal. Worse still, the Digitech Jamman is named after a famous vintage looper, yet doesn't do the same things the original (Lexicon) Jamman did. When I first got onto this list, I looped using the delay effects of my Digitech StudioQuad and the Boss SE-50. Today, I do most of my looping with the Repeater and/or the DL4 - and I'll have to say that even the repeater has some serious flaws (think about the can't go from record to overdub "feature"). And I still believe that cool looping-stuff can be done with a minimum setup (I'm thinking about trying this for a change) - and it can be very inspiring (but also very limiting) not to have certain features at hand. What are these important features and use cases? This of course depends on the artist - and it helps to study your own style of using the tool - there are lots of options on the Repeater (and on the DL4) which I use all the time, while I don't (or very seldomly) use others. And with that I'll end: it depends on the player what is important feature-wise - and that what is a good looper and what isn't. Rainer -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Michael [mailto:michaelbrian76@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Oktober 2005 20:36 An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Betreff: Re: OT: Digitech Jamman for sale - a hair from new I'm sorry to hear of your disillusionment. I recently purchased a JamMan as an "entry level" device into the world of looping. Although I'm far from being an entry level guitarist/bassist (30+ years). These devices, and looping in general first piqued my interest when I saw the RC20 and a DL-4 being used. And I finally came upon the LD site and the mailing list. I joined the list to get information, advice, tips, etc., on looping. But it seems that units such as the RC20XL, JamMan and such, are considered "toys" by the majority of users on this site. It seems like, if you don't own an Echoplex or Repeater - you're not really looping and you're just not welcome here. I understand the origins of Loopers Delight, so I see where the "brand loyalty" rules. I wouldn't knock down anyone because my Taylor or Martin guitar sounded better than their Takamine or Ibanez... They're just tools of the trade, and it's up me to make it sound as good as I possibly can - whether it's $300 or $3000. Personally, I'm having a lot of FUN learning and playing on the Digitech JamMan with simple looping techniques. So it works for me... for now. I really like the musical creations a lot of you are doing on your loopers. Very inspiring. Eventually, I would like to attain that "skill level" of looping. And maybe to get to that point, I will need to get an Echoplex or.... But for now, I'm content with my new "toy". Mike Janosik <wklemmer1@yahoo.com> wrote: Well, I'm too disillusioned to use my Digitech Jamman anymore after the prior posts. so, if anyone wants to buy one, make me a reasonable offer - otherwise it's going on eBay. ABSOLUTE mint condition. Includes box, all docs, power supply, Smartcard. Only used it a couple of times. Shipping TBD. J Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.