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So where is the difference between consumer and pro needs? From a judicial standpoint, both consumer and pro products are (in Germany) governed by the same law (GPSG), and actually have stronger requirements for consumer products; this law does treat safety requirements, not any functional aspects. And what is considered pro or consumer is then up to what the manufacturer thinks - making (with regard to your example) a JBL Control 1 pro while a B&W Natilus is a consumer product - making the JBL higher quality... But coming back to the ongoing discussion: pros can often be recognized by using products of lesser quality, because they can't afford the products an amateur with a well-paid day job and no need to make ends meet with his passion could. Rainer -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Wavecomputer360 [mailto:wavecomputer360@gmx.de] Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 19:16 An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Betreff: Re: Defining "pro" To me "pro" means high quality hardware that delivers high quality results as opposed to "consumer" hardware which just satisfies consumer needs but does not cover higher demands. Like comparing hi-fi speakers with studio monitors... Stephen. "I´m striving for the mysterious. The obvious doesn´t interest me." (Jon Hassell) "Hoellenengel" -- new album by Stephen Parsick, street date October 1, 2005. Visit the official [´ramp] website at www.doombient.com WTB: "England´s Hidden Reverse" by David Keenan (Coil, Current93, Nurse With Wound, David Tibet). ----- Original Message ----- From: Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Defining "pro" It's only elitist if you've bought into the idea that the worth of a thing is measured primarily by its monetary value. One can describe something as "profitable" or "non-profitable" in reference to its economic measure without touching at all on any artistic merit the thing may, or may not have. If you're getting upset because someone says you're not a "professional" musician, then it's probably because you want their approval and you're not happy with the criteria they're using to dole it out. Yes, it's very hard to make a living (of any sort) from music, but using "professional" to mean "likes doing it a whole bunch" is out of line with the way the term is used in regards to virtually all other fields of endeavour. "Professional" is more related to occupational status, not artistic merit. To say that something is of "professional" quality commonly means that it's good enough to have been produced by someone whose livlihood depends on it, regardless of whether the person who created the thing actually does so. TravisH On 10/16/05, sonic steph <ml@dadaprod.org> wrote: > > I guess it is not funny at all, but making a living of music sounds > completely elitist.. As this is only possible if only few people > produce music.. the disc industry make people think that very few > people are really talented, which is obviously wrong, regarded to all > the stuff you can hear on the net, on the metro or wherever you listen > to non commercial music.. so a pro to be pro sounds to me more like a > capitalistic bahaviour than a musical one.. > > bye > > stephane >