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David wrote: "I had a nasty and humiliating experience in Berkeley a few years ago when Henry Kaiser and John Oswald invited me to participate in a noise-type event. my guitar playing was way too pretty and conventional for the context, and I wound up feeling kinda stupid by the time it was over." I know the feeling, although in recent years I have really gotten more into being a complete chameleon, stylistically.................so that if it's a noise event, I just go for it in that context. I've found that it has helped my musicianship to put myself into scary, uncomfortable positions, stylistically. When my DSP unit completely failed during the Dark Elektronix festival and I was left with only non-reberbed found sound looping in the middle of all of this extremely intense and loud dark techno, drum and bass and experimental music I had the worst shame attack on stage. And yet, a young woman came up to me afterwards and said that she had been to all three nights of the festival and that what I did was the best thing she saw in the three days and that it totally inspired her. I was glad I risked it after that one response. I've been lucky enough to be asked to play the Disquiet Dark Ambient Festival, Binaural Dimensions, the Dark Elektronix Festival, the Boise Experimental Music Festival, The Kobe Underground Festival (where I did goth/pop work as a singer/sonwriter of all wierd things), the Zurich International Live Looping Festival (where I did my found/sound multi-instrumental schtick) and every one of these performances was catered to the specific styles of the festivals. the cool thing is that I"m really into relatively conventional pop music with vocals and chord progressions these days but all of the aspects of these styles that I've given myself to can sneak into the songs that I'm writing. An example of this is that I saw an unbelievably inspiring and creative concert last night in San Francisco..............the british band, ELBOW. Ultra minimalists, they are a five piece band that plays quiet and melancholic songs but there is the hint of 3rd world music ............glitch electronics.............rock and roll.............singer songwriter vibe.....even avante garde and found sound sensibilities in what they play, yet they are a fairly straightforward pop band (with a singer with an beautiful voice and a lot of melodic and emotional range). It's as good a concert as I've ever scene and my wife and I (she, as always, turned me onto them) were blissed out at the end of it. But, back to your comment , David, you certainly must know that Henry Kaiser is an amazingly versatile musician who plays a lot of pop as well as his avante garde stuff. did you ever find out what he thought of your playing? I only ask because I've discovered that frequently the way we feel about our playing is not necessarily how we are percieved. But I too, feel that I like conventional music too much for the avante garde scene and am too 'out' for the conventional pop world so I can relate.