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If I could make an embarassed face with text only, I'd do it! Basically, I solved my problem...user error...Chainer has wet and dry level control for each effect, and for each "stack" (row of effects, there are 8 of them in the host)....I had turned up the dry levels on each stack to maximize volume, which was passing dry signal through, even though I had the dry signal to 0 on each individual efffect. But I learned something that is the inverse of my problem, which is sort of interesting. It's not that some effects were passing dry signal through even when the dry mix on them was off, rather it was that some effects were sending no dry signal at all. It was the other way around....so even though I had the stack dry mix up to 100, the effect wasn't passing any dry signal to it. Odd, but easy to work with. Anyway, works like a charm now, and wow does everything sound different! Even Ruby Tube has totally changed its character and is better than before...not uneffected signal mixed with it now. And Hipno effects sound awesome! I had to change my settings on a lot of things to get my levels up, but all is good now. Now I need to start experimenting with some of the Pluggo routing VSTs so that I can insert tone mangling effects after Mobius in the Chainer sequence of VSTs....try some of the randomizing VSTs, etc....get my web cam up and running to control Hipno and the virutal Theremin, get Toy Bear's Monster Bag of tone mangling effects, etc....the list goes on....not enough time in the day. Kris ************************************************* Krispen Hartung / Improvisational Guitar www.krispenhartung.com / www.myspace.com/krispenhartung info@krispenhartung.com / 1.208.724.5603 Discography - http://www.krispenhartung.com/catalogue.htm Looper's Delight Playlist - http://www.boisemusicians.com/loopers-delight.m3u