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Er...Chuck, please re-read my post. I did not say specifically what your are implying here and I certainly was not trying to paint the *entire* American population with some broad and "unfair" brushstroke. Hey. *I* live *here* too, y'know! :-) No offense intended, but why is that Americans are often SO touchy when someone else (sometimes even a "fellow citizen") even comes close to questioning, or (gasp!) criticizing even certain aspects about America and it's culture? Remember that, by default, *I* am *also* an American citizen, but that may very well change someday too, if I can make it happen. I also was not trying to imply that *all* conservatives were the psycho xenophobic greedy neoconartist types. I was referring to the more open and obvious ones who are like this. I assumed, and I guess incorrectly, that I did not have to make a distinction between the current crop of corrupt and power mad control freak Rethug neocons that certainly *are* wrecking the nation, as opposed to the old time "Eisenhower" Republicans and the "Goldwater" conservatives, many of whom I have not much of a problem with just as long as the playing field is kept level, which, with the neoconartist Rethugs, is *not* the case. And also, what "doesn't work" in Canada, and other places, that does not adopt a "common" language? Last I checked, (and I have friends in Canada who love it there) the Canadians in general were doing pretty good and are not nearly as freaked out as so many are here in the "Land of the Free!". It also seems that Europe has done fairly well, too. Maybe some other places, as well? And, when did, and which of the so-called Founding Fathers actually say there must be a "common" language? News to me historically, but if I am wrong, then I do not mind being educated to the contrary. "Knowledge is power", y'know. :-) And, if ya wanna experience "childish", just check out the usual behaviors and attitudes of most neocon "adults". (including "our" current president) Give me an "Eisenhower" or a "Goldwater" anytime. (and I am not *even* a Republican! ) :-) -Rev. Fever On Sep 29, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Chuck Silva wrote: > As an American who considers himself a Liberal Democrat, I would > like to take issue with the Rev Fever regarding English as the > primary language in the United States. And I think it's unfair and > childish to condescend on an entire country or at least an entire > sub culture-neo conservatives for their views > > I'm certain(and it's unfair to make this inference) that most > conservatives are not anti spanish nor are they a bunch of trigger > happy gun yielding cowboys ( and I'll be the first to speak out > against the proliferation of guns in America and am pro gun control). > > Having said all that bru ha ha let me say this: > > A long time ago our wise Fore Father's had the prudence to see the > importance of having a single common language to hold our adverse > country together. We only need to look to Canada and other bi- > lingual countries to know that it doesn't work. > > We need to have a single common language and that is English. One > can do what they want at home but in school English and only > English (or shall we say American language?) should be taught as > our primary language! > > Don't get me wrong. I am in love with and cherish the precious > global village that we are all apart. And I'm in your camp > regarding their preservation. But it would be a disaster if we were > to all split up into micro cultures unable to communicate with each > other in the US. > > Chuck Silva:-) > > > On Sep 29, 2007, at 2:39 PM, Rev Fever wrote: > >> Possibly the next universal language is to be Chinese, >> since China is obviously rapidly rising to be one of the next >> super powers, >> if not eventually *the* super power, and currently has over 20% of >> the world's population. >> >> I seriously doubt that the Chinese gov't will make English >> mandatory and it's national language, >> but probably will at least require some learning of it as part of >> the basic educational curriculum (if not already?) >> and mainly for the purposes of business dealings in our ever- >> globalizing world. Seems likely. >> >> The Sleeping Dragon is fully awake now and ready to further >> stretch it's muscles.... >> (Thanx, Wal-Mart! :-) ) >> >> Mandarin, or Hakka, or Cantonese, anyone? >> >> Here is a good place to start: >> http://www.chinalanguage.com/ >> >> Just some thoughts that occurred to me while reading these posts >> about English becoming the "universal language" the world, >> which personally to me, smacks a bit of the same Anglo / Euro- >> ethnocentricity train of thought that has sadly been going on >> all over the world for several hundred years now, and often at the >> peril of countless numbers of the inhabitants of other countries. >> (Sorry anyone, but that's the way it sounds to me. So, sue me. :-) ) >> >> I would much rather be more influenced by cultures other than the >> one I currently exist in. >> >> Over here in the USA, we have a bunch of delusional and psychotic >> xenophobic Right (AKA: wrong) wing control freaks that are >> DEMANDING that "their" America be an English ONLY country. They >> hate even the very *idea* of ESL and loudly say so. What a bunch >> of self-superior dominator culture morons. >> (and are mainly Rethuglicans and just love their guns!) >> >> As for Spanish previously mentioned by Luis, I am glad that I know >> at least *some* of it (but still learning...) and enough to >> roughly get by with in >> conversations with Spanish speaking people. "Pidjin Spanish" >> really, but usually enough to make my point,etc. >> This originated with me as a kid growing up 150 miles north of the >> Mexican border, way out in West Texas. I am at least glad for that >> happening. >> (I am in Portland,OR, now. Split from Texas YEARS ago.) >> >> Also, for several years now, I have been sending whatever monetary >> support that I can afford to a small school for young kids >> in a small indigenous town named Chickaloon, Alaska. The main >> reason that I like the school is that >> it is giving the kids both a "Western" education and also their >> ( pre-White / pre-oil industry,etc, intrusions) >> traditional education and ways, and also *preserving their >> traditional language*, along with giving them other skills, etc. >> >> That did it for me to start to give them some support, and I am >> just another lower-income White guy stuck in America. :-) >> >> School info: >> http://www.chickaloon.org/Education/YaNeDahAh.html >> >> I also fully agree about music being the REAL universal language, >> at least on the plane that transcends the one that regular >> languages exist on, >> and I have felt that way for YEARS now. (Thanx for bringing that >> subject up, Brian. Not "cliche" at all, IMO) >> >> L8r, articul8ors... >> >> -Rev. Fever >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Brian Kupferschmid wrote: >> >>> I know this sounds cliche, but as far as I'm >>> concerned, music is the only universal language. We >>> all speak different languages for a reason, though, >>> I'm not sure what that reason is. I always thought it >>> was cool that other parts of the world had their >>> languages and cultures. If one travels abroad, I feel >>> it beneficial to learn the language and learn the >>> cultures and traditions, it proves very educational. >>> I guess what I'm trying to say is if English is >>> becoming the globally acceptable language of >>> communication, I think it's just as important that >>> English speaking people also learn the languages of >>> other countries, call this my two cents on trying to >>> avoid the whole "ugly American" stereotype, because I >>> am one of those people who has never been afraid to >>> keep learning, even at my age. Ironically, I spoke >>> fluent German several years ago, however, I've >>> forgotten more than I remember. >>> --- Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 29 sep 2007, at 04.46, Raul Bonell wrote: >>>> >>>>> 6 million people and our mother tongue >>>>> continues disappearing... >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, it seems the planet is slowly coming together >>>> with English as >>>> the common dominator. In my little country of birth >>>> we're only some >>>> nine million people, but since a decade even >>>> journalists on the >>>> national level media channels "speak English" but >>>> with Swedish words. >>>> I mean borrowing typical phrasing and allegories >>>> from English instead >>>> of using the Swedish equivalence. This phenomenon >>>> first happened here >>>> three hundred years ago as the upper classes used to >>>> borrow from >>>> French and even speak French instead of Swedish. But >>>> this time it's >>>> happening at all levels of the society and that's >>>> why I believe it >>>> won't stop until every person on the globe speaks >>>> Pidgin English, >>>> Engrish or whatever the local tweak might add. >>>> >>>> I do welcome this linguistic evolution. >>>> >>>> Greetings from Sweden >>>> >>>> Per Boysen >>>> www.boysen.se (Swedish) >>>> www.looproom.com (international)