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Hi all, Of course there are some musicians that would consider even "live looping" as a from of musical "cheating" of some sort. Too often in music, one group or style of musician often wants to present itself in an "elite" context (relative to others). The frequent habit is to "dis" somebody else instead of simply, single-mindedly, pursuing ones own ideal of "excellence" with a modicum of tacit humility and an open mind towards others who offer different styles or points of view. It all depends. Like a lot of people, I have no particular admiration for the activity of karaoke. But I suppose that there are practitioners thereof who would qualify as some having some sort of "artistic merit." I've never heard them, but it could happen. Anyhoo . . . Such questions often stem from a desire to qualify, quantify, categorize, marginalize and denigrate the artistic value of ones perceived competitive "rivals." As if to say, this music or that musician is less than something or somebody else because they do "X" and (of course) we don't. Some of it is silly . . . some of it is shamefully arrogant. Stupid primate "status seeking" . . . I guess it's in our DNA to constantly "compensate" socially. We're all guilty of it from time to time. "Cheating" in this regard is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore says as much (if not more) about the accuser as the accused. About the only clear cut "cheating" that we would all probably agree upon is "lip synching" I suppose (think Milli Vanilli). All sort of accepted and/or popular musicians have used canned material - some more cleverly than others (oops there I go again). Les Paul (an early practitioner of geetar looping if ever there was one) actually used "canned" tracks upon occasion when on live TV. Pink floyd's frequent use of "musique concret" loops in many songs is well documented. I saw David Torn at Luna Park in L.A. in the mid '90s and he had some sort of sampler (Akai I believe) to play drum track loops synched to his Lexicon delays for his otherwise solo show. Various members of this list, famous or not, including myself have used "canned" loops of various kinds at different points in time. I've found that it can be fun and useful to make loops in my DAW on the computer that sound rather unique and like no instrument on this planet - then port them over to a little phrase sampler to be played at the press of a button. The same goes for spurious audio clips from radio or TV, plus environmental or mechanical sounds I can record around the house - even the cheesy rhythm track from a wheezy old chord organ. Who the fraak cares if I'm not actually triggering them with my MIDI guitar instead of a button on a box? I also like to record simple percussion loops played on kitchen utensils or garage/shop tools. Each one on it's own would not sound like much. Envision one loop functioning like a bass drum. Another like a snare. Another like a clave or hi-hat. Another toms. Individually they are nothing - too little information to be involving or interesting alone. But even if they all have numerically relative BPM values they can sound totally different if I trigger them at different times (other than on the "one") relative to one another. Hey, I have an electrified biramau, a Seymourized kalimba, a mini conga and a diggeridoo too - they all could be fair game for this and I don't have to tote them to a show. I have also sample snaches of orchestral "chords" and "swells" from classical CDs which I've edited to use and play as canned "pads" or atmospheric loops. Is it "cheating" if I don't bring an orchestral string section to a gig to play on only one 6 minute piece? The main advantage I see for (using) canned loops is the ability they give to get to a musically developed point in composition (when playing live) earlier and/or quicker than when you actually have to play and trigger every sound in every loop one at a time in real time. In festivals with short (30 minute) set lengths it can take forever (and be rather tedius for an audience) to develop a piece all in real time (over whatever period of time) if you don't happen to have the "Mr showbiz" gene - or the panache of some musicians who can make every single little gesture and element a visual spectacle. I for one don't have such gifts. Frankly, I am as boring to watch as mold growth in the average refrigerator. I may have all the patience in the world to develop an idea one note or beat at a time in real time myself . . . but I find most audiences do not. They wanna get to the "good stuff." Having a set of personally-developed "canned" loops like these can also help in creating some some "fall back" pieces in an otherwise improvised set when the improvisatory "muse" isn't cooperating (or has decided to give the gig a miss altogether). Hey, sometimes the "muse" get's the flu too. The chief drawback (for me) is not having enough "hands off" ways to ensure these canned loops don't stay static. I used to have a little Akai sampler that would allow the loops to decay over time just like a digital delay. Parts would appear at the press of a button, loop several times and slowly, slowly, slowly fade away. All I had to do was hit the button again (at precisely the right time) for them to reassert themselves in the mix - kind of a neat and easy musical function if you ask me. So far, sadly, the Roland/Boss samplers I now own and have experience with do not have this ability. It is sooooooooo boring to hear the same loop going and going and going (like the Energizer Bunny). There was a time (about 15-20 years ago) that I thought it was really cool and "minimalistic" - hey look at me I'm Phillip Glass (or Robert Fripp, or whomever). It does have a rather seductive navel-gazing trancelike appeal. But more and more I am trying to make the loops change and evolve (as well as what I play over them). Okeedokee, I'm tired of listening to myself type. Somebody else's turn. Tag you're "it." Cheers, tEd ® kiLLiAn Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain http://www.pfmentum.com/PFMCD007.html http://www.CDbaby.com/cd/tedkillian http://www.guitar9.com/fluxaeterna.html http://www.indiejazz.com/ProductDetailsView.aspx?ProductID=193 http://guitarplayer.com/article/y2k6-international-live/Jun-07/27768 Ted Killian's "Flux Aeterna" is also available at Apple iTunes