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Looper's Delight
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Rick, As you very well know . . . I use static loops too (and quite often) . . . but I TRY to disguise it as much as possible by having other looped stuff playing against it, over it, under it, synched and unsynched . . . and by tweaking the relative volume, panning, filtering, etc., and other processing in ways to keep it a little more interesting. It's like drawing on grid paper and only letting the underlying grid show through every now and again (in select places and circumstances). "Flux Aeterna" is full of static loops that appear and disappear and reappear again . . . or merge into the background to lay hidden among other, louder details until those details are stripped away again. I think we both might agree though that having a naked boom-chucka-boom-chucka-boom drum loop going unaltered for 10 minutes would be tedious unless it had some really elastic temporal variations (push and pull) going on against it (or a really superb melody). There is nothing particularly imaginative or creative about it . . . it's like looking at the piece of grid paper all by itself with nothing else on it. BTW - one of my favorite things to do is superimpose elements with different time signatures. It's kinda hard to do on a guitar in real-time . . . even for a finger-picker like me . . . but it becomes easier with looping devices and on a DAW. Drummers like you . . . and really good pianists a la Keith Jarrett . . . have been doing this for years. Playing with time can be a very fun thing to do. But you don't know how elastic some musicians are actually being unless there is something to reference the variations against. You call it a "frame" and I call it a "grid" but I think we're both talking about the same concept. I don't think I was being adamant about it was I? I too agree that constant change with no common, recurring theme or reference point . . . or apparent structural underpinning can be just as tedious as monotonous repetition. Ted ---- Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote: > > Ted wrote: > > > "It is sooooooooo boring to hear the same loop going and going and going > (like the Energizer Bunny). > > There was a time (about 15-20 years ago) that I thought it was really > cool and "minimalistic" - hey look at me I'm Phillip Glass (or Robert > Fripp, or whomever). It does have a rather seductive navel-gazing >trancelike > appeal" > > As with so many topics and ascertations on this list, I agree with you, >Ted, > but I actually use quite a few static loops in my own music. > > As a drummer and a song writer, I learned early on that there is a >place for > what I call "framing parts" in music; > > Just as in a strong minimalist rock or r&b tune, sometimes it is very > appropriate to play the same drum beat over and over without any >variation. > George Clinton's drummers are famous for doing this and I always try to >take > my latest funk oriented drum students to see him play any time he is in > town.....just to see how minimalistically a drummer can play in service >of a > fantastic funky groove. Frequently, his drummer will play 8th notes >on the > high hat, two and four on snare drum and one and three on kick drum >with > very, very little variation in the groove. > > This, of course, sets up all the funk lines in the bass, guitar, >clavinet, > horn sections and vocals. > > In this way, I will frequently layer a series of non syncopated >percussion > or melodic parts to serve merely as a framing contrast to what I will >put > over the top that is more interesting. > > I think of it as the 'diamond' that is the focus of our attention >against > the all black velvet dress' that is the contrast that sets it off. > > ******** > > In much the same way that purely static loops can be boring, I >sometimes > find that parts that continually morph and never settle into a strong >groove > or a strong thematic melody can also be equally boring. > > Of course, we are different musicians from one another and no one is >correct > and has the answer in this discourse, but I for one, > want to go on record to claim that one can use static loops (and, >indeed, > lots of them) in a very , very interesting piece of >music..........especially > if they are not a slave to using them and if they are in service, > aesthetically to the piece of music. > > I'm really with Zoe on this one: I'm not at all opposed to using > prerecorded loops in service to one's aesthetic and more than I'm >opposed to > reproducing pre composed pieces live on stage (a symphony orchestra, >Kid > Beyond or Imogen Heap) but every time I have flirted with it, myself, I >have > found my own self not quite so engaged, emotionally, as a performer. > > I just saw a beautiful youtube performance that my brother did at >Gavilan > college where he used a drum machine and then I saw him play live again >where > he used only his guitar (and extremely creatively) to make his own 'drum > tracks'. Both performances were excellent but I related emotionally >more > to the one where he made his own tracks. > > Of course, he just layered several really neutral and perfectly >repeated > layers of 'framing rhythms' to create a drum groove that was neutral >enough > so that his own playing stood out against it in contrast. > > In the fantastic book, 'the making of Kind of Blue' by Ashley Khan, he >talks > about the fact that Miles experimented with modalism precisely because >it's > harmonic simplicity and openess gave the soloist far more freedom to >determ > the harmony of a piece of music. > > On, 'In a Silent Way' and *Bitches Brew', Miles continued on with this >them > with the first use of tape looped percussion parts which freed the > instrumentalists and drummers to be able to create a more open and fluid >form > of percussive playing. > > It was the statis of the loops that allowed for more freedom and >diversity. > > I dig that, personally > -- >