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How different is Mobius from Sooperlooper. Both use the EDP paradigm. Is Mobius superior? On Jun 21, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Per Boysen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 12:49 PM, andy butler > <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > >> perhaps there's more than one side to this, >> what a big company says can be a bit misleading, >> and what's more, >> they're saying through their publicity department. >> >> (and of course, I have slight reason to believe that you have an >> interest >> in software that is produced by small time independent developers :-) >> I have some personal experience of what validation/certification >> means >> from my business software. The checks that are done aren't to do with >> "bad coding" directly. The applicant has to prove that they are a >> "bona-fide" company, they have to provide documents from their >> business. >> That *is* a way to weed out *some* problem software, but it's >> no guarantee, and it's a barrier to small time developers, whether >> or not that's the intention. >> >> Now, of course my experience is from the M$ side of things, but it >> just >> isn't practical for Apple to do it differently by checking for >> "bad coding". >> It would cost a fortune, and would mean that developers would be >> handing over their source code to be checked. >> >> >> >> As you'd be the first to acknowledge, there's a number of software >> developers on this list who don't write crap >> software, and they might not want to pay to go through some >> Kafkaesque >> certification process. >> >> andy butler > > > Since you answering to the list on things I'm not talking about in my > posts, I'd like to try another post here to explain my point better: > > In particular I'm talking about the "Audio Unit Validator", a simple > utility that has already been around for some four or five years. > Together with a specification for the plug-in format this makes it > easy for small developers to (A) check out how to program an AU that > will be compatible with hosts etc and (B) bug check their work. Of > course some people "cheat" and do not check their coding according to > the format specification and then things may happen like this well > known example of AU host sequencers sending out a command for plug-ins > to empty the plug-in buffer before song start. Some AU plug-ins that > are not programmed to detect this call may then, after a sequencer > stop, start by throwing out the old audio buffer when called upon by a > song start message. That's just one example of the practical benefit > of having such a validating routine. We users can run the AU Validator > utility and get immediate feedback on which plug-ins on our system > that do not fulfill the AU specifications. This makes it easier for us > users to put together a stable music system. And it saves us a lot of > time. > > As you see I'm not talking about "what a big company says // through > their publicity department" ;-). I'm talking about my own hands-on > experience of working with software for making music. But I have also > personally seen Apple affiliated developers taking personal contact > with freelance third-party plug-in developers just to help them get on > the track. So there is nothing like a "big company ignorant attitude" > among OS X application developers. > > However, in the past OS X days Apple has done some goofy things, like > not releasing AU specifications early enough for 3d-p dev's to get > their stuff together on time for an upcoming major release - may be it > a system upgrade or some big application. I suppose THAT may be what > you have been hearing about? Yes, it sucks, and as you're saying it's > related to the way those big companies have to work under the pressure > of market competition; if you ever open up the doors to your > development lab just a tiny bit the other big companies will > immediately rip you off and take the revenue while you're own big > company still has to pay the development costs (like in that classical > Behringer example). > > Finally - when I refer to not wanting to use "crap" tools that waste > my time, I don't mean that particular softwares are "crap". To me it's > the situation that is crap, since it robs me of my time. But that's > how it is and we have to live with it. We can't go back in time and > politely ask Steinberg to provide better guidance and control of VST > 3d-p development. Today lots of stuff that make systems crash are > already out there. All I'm saying is that I don't have the time to > deal with all that and that I now prefer another more time efficient > method that is available. > > This has nothing to do with musical qualities of VST plug-ins. I > decided to assemble the best VST plug-ins for Windows I could find, in > order to replicate my favorite patches from the TC Electronics > FireworX and Eventide Eclipse effect processor devices with the Mobius > VST looper. This project came out successfully and the funny thing is > that when Apple released MainStage I realized that what I had ben > building with Windows VST's in Bidule was actually "my own MainStage > for Windows". They are quite compatible, sound wise, but I would now > prefer to use Apple's MainStage as the host because all of Logic's > plug-ins are already there in-the-box. No need to fiddle around > looking for new VST's and test them, because Emagic (now with Apple's > financing) has already done all that work in order to provide me a > stable sound design palette. > > -- > Greetings from Sweden > > Per Boysen > www.boysen.se (Swedish) > www.looproom.com (international) > www.myspace.com/perboysen >