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Where Chilvers is subtle, I am anything but.... this discussion brings to mind all that remains of an interactive Max patch that I was playing (in the most meta of senses) at the time is this recording: http://www.warrensirota.com/SoloStuff/DarkeningOfTheLight.mp3. It was a midi-generating program, realized through an Ensoniq VFX. that 6-minute generated piece is part of fairly long collage that I assembled some years ago, btw, that consists mainly of loops I made when writing the first EDP manual. i was using a variety of guitar processors that were passing through my hands as I was writing ad copy and reviews and such. That can be heard at http://www.warrensirota.com/SoloStuff/Hexagrams2.mp3 Hope you enjoy, Warren