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Just to address your basic question, I have a LR Baggs Element system on my acoustic guitar. It's the base model with only a piezo pickup in the bridge. And it sounds incredible direct into Mobius. Granted, I'm going direct using a Demeter Tube Direct box. And the Demeter is a tube unit and is definitely pricier than the Fishman unit you're using. But I've only got an ancient MOTU 828 mkI audio interface. There is nothing inherently bad or unusable about a piezo pickup. But you do need a pre-amp that is "voiced" for a piezo pickup. The LR Baggs sytem I have has an on-board preamp that is designed to make the piezo output sound good and natural. If that Realist system does not include a pre-amp, I would wonder the Fishman unit you have was meant to work with a piezo output. There are impedance issues, beside the obvious EQ stuff. I would not believe that the MOTU was the source of your problems unless it is a defective unit. -George ----- Original Message ---- From: Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:33:31 PM Subject: Re: Looping upright bass? I did my first tests recording a bunch loops and the signal to noise ratio is still awlful even with a fishman preamp. If I set it to a level where the noise is not an issue the level of my recorded loops is much lower then the level of my bass playing. If I turn up the preamp to match level then the noise is pretty bad. I was curious as to anybody elses setup that is using a piezo pickup on an acoustic instrument that is successful looping live. I'm going to go back to practicing my looping with a mic and headphones because I can't seem to work out using a pickup and getting a clean signal into my computer. Could possibly be a problem with my audio interface... heres my signal flow so far D. Bass-Realist pickup-Fishman Pro EQ Platinum Pickup-Motu ultralite-Mac Mini Seems like so much gear and money when I type it out its a shame its sounds like poo:) The realist does sound great through my bass amp (pizz and arco) so maybe hardware might be the answer for me to make more music than troubleshoot. Todd On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> wrote: > I got the noise under control with the Fishman preamp. Thanks again > for the advice Ted and Erik! There is still noise and hum but only if > I crank the volume on the speakers. On my headphones I can hear it > much easier but I think its because the are the type of headphones > that cup your ear well to prevent leakage but then probably noise form > the piezo pickup easier to hear. Is that just the nature of piezo > pickups? Does anybody use some type of hum or noise eliminator for > loud live gigs? > > Todd > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:40 PM, ditch wrestler ><ditchwrestler@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> No problem, Todd. Glad I could help. >> >> As Eric emailed, Radial Engineering has some nice piezo-specific >pre-amp's, >> too. Heard nothing but good stuff about them as well. >> >> As I said about pre-amp's, p/u's are also very personal - I'm on a >double >> bassist list-serv and there are some guys that swear by their BP-100's, >> which were probably one of the first piezo p/u's made. I had one and it >> stunk. >> >> I've got a Revolution Solo that I bought used off Talkbass.com - >> http://www.clefmusic.com/revolutionsolo.htm I'm happy with it but >mainly I >> don't have the time/energy/money to try a lot of different ones. One >thing >> I like about it is that it picks up noise from the bass' body - I've >been >> known to hit, slap, and beat my bass so I like it when that comes >across. >> >> I'd be different if I was doing more "straight up" music but I'm mostly >just >> making noise, so one p/u's the same as another! >> >> Also, I'm not a laptop guy - I've got two loopers (a DL4 and an RC20xl) >and >> a mess of pedals (delays, pitch shifters, etc.) that I try to keep in >arm's >> reach so I can manipulate them whilst playing. >> >> Send me mp3's of yourself whenever you feel like it - I've got one or >two >> solo pieces on my myspace pag; I've got more but just can't be arsed to >get >> them up... I've also got some stuff of me playing electric but it's on >DAT >> and I need to get it converted. Once I get them together in one place, >I'll >> be happy to send you a copy. >> >> >> ted. >> Enemies are good for self-definition. Werner Herzog >> >> --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> From: Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: Looping upright bass? >> To: ditchwrestler@yahoo.com >> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 12:21 PM >> >> Thanks for the help, Ted. Once I get setup I'd love to send you some >> mp3's and get your thoughts. I've been doing more testing and I think >> the noise might be my ultralite. I realize with nothing pluged into >> the unit, if I turn up the mic preamp gain it gets real noisy. It >> didnt used to be like that so I think it might have gone bad sometime >> over the past couple years. >> >> I'm going to take your advice and return the Sansamp and look for a >> decent preamp. >> >> Now I gotta decide if I wanna stay on the computer path or not. It's >> tempting to save for a RC-50 and just have that inbetween the preamp >> and my bass amp. I've been trying to get the computer thing going for >> a couple months now and its been a whole lot of troubleshooting and >> very little music making. >> >> Thanks again for the hel, Ted. I'll send you an email to let you know >> how it ends up. >> >> Charles - Thank you for the link. >> It's actually very exciting to find >> out about bass looping recordings and meet other bassists that do >> this. Not disappointing. Then I know I'm not traveling down a dead end >> road:) I had not heard of Todd Reynolds and Zoe Keating until recently >> so didn't even realize until now ANY string players did this type of >> thing. >> >> Todd >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:24 PM, ditch wrestler ><ditchwrestler@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, Todd. We might be the only two looping double-bassists here so >> thought >>> I should speak up! >>> >>> I think, first of all, you'd benefit more from a pre-amp, as opposed >> to a >>> DI, which will boost the signal and hopefully get rid of the hiss, etc. >>> which I think is there because you need to turn it up too much to get a >>> decent signal into your ultralite. >>> >>> Pre-amps are just as much of a personal choice as pick-ups. I know the >>> Fishman >> Pro-EQ Platinum Bass Preamplifier is popular and generally highly >>> recommended. >>> >> >http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1407-FISHMAN_PRO_EQ_PLATINUM_BASS_PREAMPLIFIER.html. >>> >>> I've got an ART Tube MP pre-amp and pretty happy with it. >>> http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?type=79&cat=1&id=1. It >> doesn't have >>> an EQ (which the Fishman does) but that's not a big deal for me. >>> >>> I see that David Gage doesn't offer a pre-amp but you might want to >> email >>> them to see if they recommend a certain unit. >>> >>> For more help and info, check out the double bass forums at TalkBass - >>> www.talkbass.com >>> >>> Feel free to email me off-list if you've got more questions. >>> >>> >>> Ted. >>> Enemies are good for self-definition. Werner Herzog >>> >>> --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> From: >> Todd Matthews <gtmatthews@gmail.com> >>> Subject: Looping upright bass? >>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com >>> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:05 AM >>> >>> I've been trying to get this work for awhile now and I've run into >> a >>> lot of trouble. Just to get the concepts down and to practice I have >>> been recording into a mac mini with an ultralite as this was my >>> recording setup before I tried looping. So far I've been learning how >>> to use sooperlooper with Ableton live and it sounds great but I'm >>> using a mic to record my bass and monitoring with headphones. This >>> sounds great now but won't work for live performance because I >> can't >>> play through speakers using a mic. I realize a pickup would be much >>> better for feedback and to keep the loops from being re-recorded on >>> each pass. >>> >>> I borrowed a friends Realist bass pickup which sounds >> great using a >>> bow or pizzicato through my bass amp! It is a piezo pickup that goes >>> between the top of the bass and under the foot of the bridge. ( >>> >> >http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1428-REALIST_BASS_PICKUP_FOR_BASS_CELLO_OR_VIOLIN_VIOLA.html >>> ) When I tried plugging it into the MOTU ultralite to loop using Live >>> and Sooperlooper it sounded awful. (Hum, noise, pops crackles) After >>> doing some research I purchased a Sansamp Bass Driver DI box to plug >>> the bass into between the output of the Realist pickup and the MOTU >>> ultralite. Using it as a directbox sounded better but it is still >>> extremely noisy which won't work for looping. Every time I overdub the >>> noise gets multiplied. >>> >>> I really like the sound of the pickup as I mostly use the bow and most >>> pickups usually sound crappy with a bow. I know the pickup can sound >>> good plugged into my bass amp, >> and I know my ultralite can sound good >>> recording with a microphone so I guess I'm wondering how I can bridge >>> the gap and get the sound of the bass into my computer without all the >>> noise and/or hum. >>> >>> I also tried plugging into my amp and then plugging output of the amp >>> into the ultralite AND also going into my amp, into the DI box, into >>> the ultralite without success either. >>> >>> >>> Anybody have any advice on how I can loop upright bass without using a >>> mic (preferrably with this Realist pickup) and with quality sound >>> playing the bass arco or pizz? >>> >>> Thank you in advance, >>> >>> Todd >>> >>> >>> >> >> > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com