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Gosh Per, this couldn't have been expressed more clearly! It's exactly for such reasons I look forward to get rid of those pesky fixed positions dot inlays - they really disturb my creative mindset. Further comments @ Mark: I was so stuck in pentagon patterns from 'traditional' good solid Rock! A bit weird, as I was once trained in church musick and classical, and had a keen interest in progressive jazz/fusion for years. Then for 5 years I didn't touch a guitar after a serious relationship break, ending in crap basement appartments. Well, shit happens.. :D 2½ years ago I bough an appartment and starting shopping gear. In the meantime I had greatly expanded my music interests to the goth- and black-metal stuff incorporating weird scales and intonations from east-european, arab and indian music.. the works.. So, I've methodically worked on *not* thinking in traditional fixed terms, trained on building up slow runs with the ability to move freely over the whole board, incorporating the mentioned non-western scales. I also re-learned my positioning with thump-under, using all four fingers, and precision equal-up-down picking technique. As a result I can now move most everywhere with good confidence, speed and precision is rapidly improving, and I can move in and out of styles and scales. I often just try 'something' to see what happens, tonal-wise, and is often rewarded with interesting harmonies. I admit I have a lot of theory to read up on, to understand it all, but do not see this as a problem. The most important change for has been freeing up my mindset. So, when I try a new tuning, it's like 'now, what can this baby do..' ;) Per Boysen wrote: > Marc, > > I think the guys that experiment with different tunings don't really > "think" the music as "an instrument". We rather think the the music as > the notes; I mean, according to a key, a scale (not "guitar neck" > scale but the real sounding scale, the vibreations) and a tonal > center. If you think music like that, all you have to do is to find > out "where on this new instrument are the octave, the fifth" etc etc. > Soon you're off playing your usual stuff with the new instrument's > special touch options. > > To learn an instrument as "I put my finger down here to get this note" > is a mistake IMHO and I'm amazed that music schools still do that to > kids. You should learn instrument by first learning a melody of let's > say three notes. Then you find out how to play that melody on the > instrument. > > Greetings from Sweden > > Per Boysen > www.boysen.se > www.perboysen.com > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:44 AM, mark francombe ><mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote: > >>I've been watching this tread with grrat interest, I think its amazing >how >>so many of you have experimented with tunings, and have of course tried >some >>things myself on spare guitars, for effects. (Like for example the >tunings >>that Rick mentioned, about tuning the whole guitar to one note for groovy >>droning noise stuff etc). >> >>What really amazes me however is... do you guys reall RE-learn all your >>scales and chords for all these different tunings? I mean, if you tune >to >>this 5ths approach... how do you play a chord!!! Its taken me 33 years >>(since I first got a guitar) to learn a few girl guide chords, and a >couple >>of bar chords.... one (ok two) scales, that I can slide up and down... >but >>the thing that has stopped me REALLY getting into tuning is this... Do I >>really have to forget what I ever knew... and dedicate my life to a new >>tuning???? >> >>I myself have been using baritone guitar for 10 years, with a A based >>tuning, this gives me the LOWS I need for bass parts, and I use a lot of >>pitch shifting, and can go high enough... but this is still standard >tuning >>basically, just tined down a bit... >> >>Have to try out this 5ths thing >> >>m >> >>On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net> >>wrote: >> >>>>Per Boysen wrote: >>>> >>>>>Anyone here on the list having tried tuning a guitar in fifths for >>>>>wider orchestration options? Or even wider intervals? Would make sense >>>>>when looping to get lower bass and higher highs. I guess you have to >>>>>pick a custom string set for this. >>>>> >>>>>Greetings from Sweden >>>>> >>>>>Per Boysen >>>>>www.boysen.se >>>>>www.perboysen.com >>> >>> >>>I have been tuning in straight fifths for the past 15 years or so.... >>> >>>http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/zwickrig.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>... >>>http://www.zmix.net >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>www.markfrancombe.com >>http://vimeo.com/user825094 >>http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe >>http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe >>www.looop.no >> > > > > . > -- rgds, van Sinn