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sorry to keep bringing this guy,the great songwriter Jose Gonzales uses open tunings on a nylon string also check out Fink beautiful nylon string open tuning composition. But i think i know what u mean Daryl,as we say in spanish,"lo que importa es la pluma" composition is the key not the tuning.I also use a lot of open tunings but i share some of your feelings...this modal open tuning steel string trend has become very technical and gymnastic oriented,what starts as an inocent experiment becomes either poorly imitated or too refined and technical which i personally loose interest in.I asked myself why when i hear tunes with open tunings like David Crosbys Deja vu,Guinevere,or Jimmy Pages Bron y aur,friends,4 and 20 by stephen stills etc. they still turns me on more that some of that more technical youtube open tuning stuff,then i soon realized that perhaps because...well now it just sounds like an open tuning:-) www.myspace.com/luisangulocom --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote: > From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> > Subject: Re: OT: Tuning guitar in fifths/ my rant defending alt. tunings >:-) > To: agentlesoul2004@yahoo.com, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:54 PM > Whoa, I certainly wasn't claiming I'm more creative > or talented than anyone else - yikes!! Hell no! No offense > taken, but I wasn't putting myself above anyone who does > use different tunings. That's a nice list. (Not that > Keith Richards is exactly known for his solo work...). I > should have placed more effort in indicating that, for ME, > for what I'm interested in, I don't see a whole lot > of possibilities that can't be gotten at otherwise. BUT > I'm a nylon-string player. I might feel different if I > had a dreadnaught Taylor, or if I was inspired by the > English folk/American roots path that the soloists among the > people you mention generally spring from. (Mitchell's > Ellington fixation aside). I'm more inspired by jazz, > classical and flamenco players, where playing in alternate > tunings isn't part of a tradition, and moreover, would > be a real limitation in the case of improvising. > > I invoked YouTube not to refer to these people, but the > current crop of folks who mainly take a few tricks from > Michael Hedges (another alt-tuner who I have tremendous > respect for) and go a-tapping and a-slapping all day long. I > don't wish to directly put down artists so I won't > name names, but if you search for Hedges videos, a few links > away you'll find the people I'm talking about. > > cheers, > > Daryl Shawn > www.swanwelder.com > www.chinapaintingmusic.com > > > my friend, with all due respect to your post, why in > God's holy name would you use youtube as your evidence > of boring amateur alt. tuning solo guitarist's? I > assume you are NOT referring to John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Nick > Drake, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Richard Thompson, Jimmy > Page,John Renbourn, John Martyn, Chet Atkins, Sonic Youth, > Swervedriver, THE GREAT KEITH RICHARDS WHO WROTE MORE 3 > CHORD ROCK SONGS IN HISTORY IN OPEN G THAN ANYBODY HAS A > RIGHT TO--how in the world can THAT be limiting?? Pierre > Bensusan, Martin Carthy, Bruce Cockburn, Ry Cooder, David > Crosby? Hell even boring ass Eric Clapton and even more > boring Peter Frampton use alt. tunings!!! Are you more > creative than all these guitarist's both as a guitarist > and more importantly a composer in altered tunings? I > DON'T mean to be rude at all or disrespectful to you > sir, but I propose there are only limited minds, NOT limited > tunings!! :-) If you doubt my word on the above using > them they are all documented in Mark Hanson's excellent > book "The Complete Book of Alterate Tunings" > peace my friend marc > > > > /Marc Marshall/ > > // /"I am human, I am large, I contradict > myself"/ > > // /.....and then some / > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 2/27/09, Daryl Shawn > /<highhorse@mhorse.com>/* wrote: > > > > From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> > > Subject: Re: OT: Tuning guitar in fifths for wider > orchestration > > options > > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com > > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:17 PM > > > > With a heaping helpful of due respect to all those > whose alt-tuned playing I > > enjoy - and the distinct feeling that I'm a > lone fuddy-duddy here - I'm > > one of those resisters, though I did play in > nothing but altered tuning for a > > long time. For me, the advantage was the mental > breaking of ruts, but I found it > > was the wrong approach - treating the symptoms, > not the cause of the rut. > > I'd found myself always playing the same > things, but came to see that I was > > simply limited in the technique and knowledge I > had. Altered tuning threw away > > the experience I'd already gained, so I ended > up even quicker in a new rut - > > I was tuned DADGCF, so suddenly I started writing > everything in D minor. After > > five years, I switched back to standard, and > practice as often as I can in it, > > and haven't found myself in a rut (by my own > subjective analysis, of > > course...) since. The solution was increasing my > knowledge of the guitar, > > getting closer to the goal of making seamless the > division between self and > > instrument, able to play what I heard in mind, not > putting fingers down and > > finding new sounds by chance. > > > > I dunno...if a sax player gets in a rut, do they > quickly switch to clarinet? Or > > do they practice different things, seek out new > music to listen to, find new > > playing opportunities to challenge the rut, which > is a mental construct anyway? > > > > Honestly, I don't see a world of possibilities > in switching tunings. Sure, > > there's a big ringing resonance that one can > get with unisons or open > > octaves, but that already sounds played out to my > ears unless the composition is > > a good one. If you go on YouTube and watch the > scores of open-tuned solo guitar > > players, you'll see the easy temptations they > fall into - basing everything > > on a pedal note on the lowest open string, sliding > around the same chord > > position on the low strings with the high ones > ringing out, hitting the 12th and > > 5th fret harmonics compulsively in every damn tune > - because those tricks sound > > good, at an average and tired level of good. > > > > Just my experience...YMMV (and probably already > has, I'm gathering!). > > > > Daryl Shawn > > www.swanwelder.com > > www.chinapaintingmusic.com > > > > > I know many guitarists that resist open > tunings and I honestly don’t > > know why. They really open up another world of > possibilities and are a great way > > to take a break from standard tuning, if for no > other reason than to provide > > fresh perspective and break out of playing ruts. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > >