Re: blech (pedal choices

[G <gigs@paradise.net.nz>]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:56:33 -0400, you wrote:
>>I'm interested in getting a stereo looper with midi sync, preferably a
>>pedal, but not happy with those on the market.
>Join the club here. 
Do I get a decoder ring?

>I have 3 loopers DL 4, DD 20, and 2880. What they can do 
>is what I have to focus on not what they can't. From reading here all 
>loopers (should I say hardware? :)) have some wish lists and "if onlys" 
>attached.

The Boss RC50 is the closest in terms of features except for the lack of
ability to increase memory - however reading reviews and threads on it's
problems I've all but written it off.
The 2880 is really the only other option at the moment short of buying a
laptop and software.
I'm aware of some other good loopers out there like the 'rang and
Looperlative, but they have volatile memory - also at that price I can
probably get a second hand laptop and looping software.

>>I currently use a EHX SMMH and while it's a lot of fun and good at what
>>it does, there's no accurate way to set the tempo other than by tap or
>>analogue dial without any BPM readout which means it inevitably drifts
>>away from the timing of my other effects.
>>Midi sync is very important to me now.
>What are you syncing to? 
Yet to be decided.  Most likely a sequencer, or drum machine - if I end
up using a laptop for looping, then I'd look into using that instead.
I'm on a small budget so I take my time to make sure that when I do
spend my money, it's on something that does what I expect it to.

>In my experience even if you had a BPM readout on 
>all loopers and fx they would drift apart. No two clocks are the same. 
That's very good to know, thank you.  
It reinforces my decision to use midi sync.
The other reason I'd like the BPM readout is so I can set the time
within cooee of what the rest of the band are doing - as that can be
reasonably approximate, this would suffice.  However I'd expect to set
the BPM or tap tempo on one device (drum machine/sequencer/laptop/or
even a looper) which the rest of my rig would be slaved to.

>I have read that the DD 20 is very stable and if you have 2 of them set 
>the 
>same they will stay together. I have not tried this however as I only 
>have 
>one. Great reviews here:
>http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/bossDD20/bossDD20.html
>I never use it in looper mode. I use it in delay mode. Up to 23 sec of 
>stereo delay is a great looper for me. There is a way to double that time 
>in 
>one of these reviews. I really want one more of these.
That's great to know.
I use my SMMH and TC Nova Delay (in stereo) for most of my delay needs,
and my Adrenalinn 3 has a stereo delay as well.  So right now I'm more
interested in a looper with a lot more functionality, and the ability to
store and retrieve loops - rather than a delay pedal with a looper, if
you see what I mean.

I got a bit excited when I first started reading about the Digitech GNX4
- the 8 track recorder/looper alone appeared to worth the value of the
entire pedal.  However as I read the manual and reviews I became very
disappointed.  Great features, apparently poor execution.  I had hoped
the 8 track recorder could be controlled by midi commands. And
apparently the audio quality, despite the specs on paper, in practice
isn't all that wonderful.

Now if there was a looper on the market with the same features as the
GNX4's 8 track recorder/looper, but with better audio quality, and more
midi features, I'd be very interested indeed.

>The DL 4 I mainly use for delay models because there is no feedback 
>(fade) 
>on the loop, although this can be simulated with the expression pedal.
Okay.  I've tried the DL4 and heard it used live regularly, it sounds
great.  But I was put off by the overwhelming number of reviews
consistantly talking about the failing foot switches.  With such a
feature rich pedal, I didn't like the limit of three save sets combined
with no way to turn the dials to get the delay you want, only to have it
forgotten as soon as you bypass the effect.

>>With the 2880, because it doesn't have tap tempo, and the tempo fader
>>doesn't have an LED read out giving an accurate BPM, theres no choice
>>for me but to slave it to another midi sync source.
>Again what are you syncing to? 
Yet to be decided.  But most likely a sequencer or drum machine.

>I can tap in a loop that is pretty accurate for most uses.
Oh.  Are you saying it has tap tempo?

>>I've read reviews  saying that if you have the 2880 slaved to a midi
>>sync source, after recording the first loop when you immediately
>>overdub, the loop playback slows down and speeds up the first time
>>through which is simply unacceptable.
>This is not my experience. When synced to my Boss DR 670 it stays locked 
>tight through all the overdubbing I do. 
That is fantastic news.

>It will drift if I put the 2880 in 
>reverse while in slave to the Boss. Also if you stop the 2880 with the DR 
>670 running  then start again it will not be in sync. I have to stop both 
>with the DR. 
Okay, that's good to know - are you able to turn the 2880 faders for the
loop down as a work around? 

>Of course you lose the octave down and fader tempo features in 
>slave sync. 
Okay.

>I don't know how old that review you read was 
Harmony Central user reviews.
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Electro-Harmonix/2880/10/1
03/26/2008
:For one, as the previous user reports, the external MIDI syncing and
:quantization is well, kinda screwy. Just try creating a new loop on
:the fly with this thing as a slave device. After you record, the loop
:"wooshes" and sounds like it is struggling to find the correct tempo.
:Well, scrap that. I will only use this device as a slave MIDI unit if
:I prerecord (and obviously, pre-quantize) the length of the loop I
:will be using. I won't use it as a master unit, as there is no tap
:tempo feature.

01/20/2007
::Specifically, the device is supposed to synch to an external Midi
::clock (this is not soo unusual or difficult, right ?) and lock loops
::to a beat. Pretty cool if it works. But it doesn't. As soon as you
::stop recording the first track and switch to playback, the recording
::you just made slows way down and does the long swoopy thing (with
::pitch changing, too) until it sort of catches back up a few bars down
::the road. It renders it totally worthless for performance or even
::having fun in your studio.

>but there has been 
>a software update that supposedly fixed some sync issues (but not all).
>>Another review said the same
>>thing, so you have to stop the 2880 before overdubbing, again
>>unacceptable.
>Again this is not my experience. I have never had that problem as long as 
>the 2880 is in quantize mode. It syncs well as master or slave except for 
>when throwing it into reverse while playing/overdubbing. I did do the 
>software upgrade.
That's good news.  Can an older pedal be upgraded by USB then?
I take it when you say "but not all", you're referring to how it behaves
in reverse or stopped and started while the master continues?

>I hope others will come forward with more on this. 
Me too.

>There is quite a bit in 
>the archives if you dig around. I rarely use the 2880 with a sync source. 
>Only for practice and such nowdays. I use it as a standalone very long 
>delay 
>type looper and tap sync it. 
How do you tap sync it?

>It works good enough for what I do. As I said I have to make the most of 
>what they all will do not just look at what they won't do.
Unfortunately it means either not being able to do certain things, or
spending more money on other loopers to fill the gap.

>I hope this helps some.
It certainly does.

>Storms raging, power is flashing, I had better go. I love Florida in the 
>rainy season!
>Jeff
Whoa!
Thanks again,
-- G.


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "G" <gigs@paradise.net.nz>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:07 AM
>Subject: Re: blech (pedal choices)
>
>
>Hi Jeff
>I'm interested in getting a stereo looper with midi sync, preferably a
>pedal, but not happy with those on the market.
>
>I currently use a EHX SMMH and while it's a lot of fun and good at what
>it does, there's no accurate way to set the tempo other than by tap or
>analogue dial without any BPM readout which means it inevitably drifts
>away from the timing of my other effects.
>Midi sync is very important to me now.
>
>With the 2880, because it doesn't have tap tempo, and the tempo fader
>doesn't have an LED read out giving an accurate BPM, theres no choice
>for me but to slave it to another midi sync source.
>I've read reviews  saying that if you have the 2880 slaved to a midi
>sync source, after recording the first loop when you immediately
>overdub, the loop playback slows down and speeds up the first time
>through which is simply unacceptable.  Another review said the same
>thing, so you have to stop the 2880 before overdubbing, again
>unacceptable.
>What's your experience of the 2880 midi sync slaved?
>Thanks in advance.
>-- G.
>
>>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>>Subject: Re: blech (pedal choices)
>>From: "Jeff Duke" <jeff_d@embarqmail.com>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:04:13 -0400
>>
>>The 2880 even with it's limitations is one looper I have never regreted
>>getting. What it can do far outweighs what it can't.
>>
>>Jeff