Re: OT: Recording Drums - gear selection

[George Ludwig <georgeludwigmusic@gmail.com>]

Just a couple of comments...

-I've owned a pair of AKG C1000s for many years, and long ago stopped using them as overheads. I'd prefer a mono overhead with a better mic to stereo with the C1000s. The C1000s is a very "brash" sounding mic...sounds to me very brittle. I hate it on cymbals. OTOH, I love it on snare if you're going for a more snappy sound. Also, some engineers love it on guitar amps.

-I would experiment with the pair of ribbons as overheads, but you'll need to manage the figure 8 pattern, and especially ensure that the null points of the pattern point to the other instruments,

-This is more of a rock trick, but if you want a second channel for kick, create a "tunnel" using cushions etc. to get a second kick mic maybe 10 feet away from the drums, You need the tunnel to insulate the sound channel from the other sounds. This second mic will pick up the lower frequencies.

-You mentioned an extra mic on high-hat...don't bother. No one I have ever known has needed *more* high hat. Usually there is too much high hat.

-Personally, I'd use a mono overhead, stereo room mics, kick, and snare. Additionally, one mic over the drummer's shoulder to hear what he hears, and finally, another mono room mic about chest high and maybe ten feet in front of the drums.

-Remember the three-to-one rule on phase.

-You're not recording the Eagles circa 1970...trying to close mic all the toms is just going to cost you time and money.

-After recording, time align the tracks and choose whatever combination of sources sounds best during *mixdown*. Don't try to make qualitative decisions until all the other instruments have been recorded.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

Dear Rainer,

It it were me,

I would use the

*D112  on the kick* (it's no problem to have that 4k peak;   just eq it out if you don't like the older styled click,
just make sure that you use a parametric and make the frequency band as narrow as possible before you
'remove' the peak'  (you probably do but if you don't,  make a very, very tight notch in your parametric and then
turn it up fully and slowly sweep your waveform with it...............the 'click' of your kick drum will obnoxiously
leap out at you..................then just take it back to 0db and start slowly taking it out until it sounds good to your ears.
The click also  may or may not be pronounced given that the drummer probably is going to use a felt beater and not a wood or plastic beater
and depending on whether , as Andy suggested, you mic from the kick side or the front side.  I can't be strong enough in advising
you to NOT use a 57 on the kick,  it sounds terrible compared to the D112.
By the way,  the 'click' of the bass drum from the 80's didn't just come from the D112's eq curve,  it came from the sensibility of
actually increasing the volume of the 4k peak.   People went so far as to tape quarters to their kick drums and using or wood beaters to
emphasize the click.  This probably came from the brief (mercifully) popularity in 80's pop production of the Simmons Electronic drums that had a very exaggerated
click sound.     Remember that the click also sometimes really helps the kick to have definition in a good way.  This is especially
true if the drummer has a  light touch on the kick or is using a particularly soft beater or has a particularly deeply (and flabby) kick drum sound.

I have to say that I can own any kick drum mic (and have) and I still prefer the D112.  Just remember that equalization is your friend.....lol.

*SM57 on the snare drum*  Place the microphone underneath the high hat (if possible) and pointed back towards the snare drum (and
away from the center of the high hat) so that the swivelling part of the capsule lies EXACTLY half on one side of the snare drum rim
and half on the other.  Point the mic towards the center striking point of the drum (to maximize that actual stick transient) and lift
it approximately 1/2" above the rim.

*SM57s one on each tom tom   *This is a trick taught to me by an audio engineer who worked with Jimi Hendrix and Mitch Mitchell:
Have someone take the 1st 57 on the high tom and, pointing it down, towards the center of the tom and approximately 6" above the head
(and NOT closer) sweep the mic across the top arc of the drum so that the drummer hits several times at each location.
One of the locations will stand out as being the best sound.   Lock that placement down with a boom stand and, keep ALL the microphones
turned on..........sweep the second SM57 over the floor tom (or 2nd tom tom if the drummer has three toms total) in exactly the same way.
Some where as you sweep the sound will suddenly sound full.  This will be because you have achieved the best phase coherence possible
given the circumstances.  If you have a third tom,  I highly recommend you borrow a 4th SM57.
Many engineers prefer a heftier mic (in terms of bass response) on the floor tom, but I find that it gives a drum set an exaggerated feel
that is not naturalistic.   I've tried every mic concievable on drumsets in hundreds of sessions as both a drummer and a producer
and those damned 57s just keep doing a great job of making a drumset sound like a drumset.

*AKG C1000S condensers as overheads  *(I suggest these because you have them and I don't know the other matched set you use
(C4s?  what are they.............if they are more accurate and detailed than the AKGs then, by all means, use them instead).
Use these on two really tall boom stands if possible.  Cross the boomstands over the top of the kit so that the  microphones criss cross
each other at roughly a 90 degree angle.......then position them so that they are looking down as evenly as possible over the cymbals.
You don't want them to close to the cymbals and, for obvious reasons, you can't get them very far away.
Again,   it's good to have someone criss cross the mics and slowly change positions (of where they are actually pointed) to see if you can
find a sweet spot.   Avoid right angles of the tip of the mic to the cymbal itself as you'll get crazy phase/doppler shifts as the cymbals move
when they are crashed.

A note:  really think about micing your Crashes.   There are now so many microphones on the kit that the ride cymbal and the high hats will
be picked up with no problem at all.     In the 80's we used to separately mic the hi hat but I almost never do anymore..............it involves
using noise gates and all kinds of things to deal with the overwhelm of cymbals in the mix when you do this.
*
ALTERNATELY:*
A really good ambient jazz micing set up frequently uses just a kick microphone and two overheards...........You'd be surprised how
good this sounds.

*A FURTHER NOTE: *   The tuning of the drumset is absolutely crucial to getting good sounds.
If your tom toms ring too much,  merely lift the microphone further from the head and DON'T TAPE or MUFFLE them,  unless you
are into that deader than anything Fleetwood Mac 'Rumors' sound which is very out of fashion these days.

As in all things 'microphone',  Placement is EVERYTHING,  so these are suggestions designed for a good tight drumset sound.
I break these rules constantly but I also am constantly looking for the new and exotic in drumset tones and micing strategies.
My favorite lately is the little over compressed stereo microphone on my old video recorder............I just get great sounding
drums out of it, but they are weird sounding drum sounds.

Good luck and contact me personally if I can be of further assistance.
yours,  Rick

--
-George

http://www.myspace.com/georgeludwigmusic