Re: Bowing Stick - practice session clip shared OT

["Mark Showalter" <folkstone57@operamail.com>]

Hello,

Well, you can look up the word & get an idea of what melody means, but it's like trying to describe "red" to a blind person. However, as I used a quote at the end, I'll repeat it. A melody is usually the part of the music that you can go out whistling after you hear the music. That's of course a simplistic answer, because there are melodies that are very complex, but then there are very powerful melodies, like Beethoven's Ode To Joy from the 9th symphony, that are  pure magic.  There is also an element of intent, in that the composer usually tries to make the melody very much up front while the rest of the music enhances it. Paul McCartney's "Yesterday" is a classic example of a melody that at least for me, never gets out of my head. Of course, that song from hell, "It's A Small World After all " does the same thing........... In the final moment, I think most people can agree on what is the melody when they hear a song & what is the background, which most can't replicate. I can't sing the guitar part for "Yesterday", although I can see me playing the guitar, but it's the melody & that fantastic string arrangement that I can almost see in my ears. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Raul Bonell
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Bowing Stick - practice session clip shared OT
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 03:04:21 +0200

at this point of the discussion, it would be cool if somebody here could give us "the definitive" melody definition ... at least, one that anybody can understand in 2010. come on!

2010/7/9 Mark Showalter <folkstone57@operamail.com>

> > I think you're grasping at something here but it's lost in the
> > way you are trying to communicate it.
>
> There's been tradition going for 500 years or so of stringed
> instruments being used to play music with two
> of more melodic lines. My original point was merely to remind of this.

Ok, although I would say that stringed instruments playing multiple lines goes back much farther than 500 years.

> Per points out that with two hands it's possible to
> play 2 independent music statements.
>
> So I'm saying that it's possible to accomplish that
> same split in terms of the music , but without having to assign
> different parts of the body to different tasks.

Now I understand this part as in reference to playing a Stick.

> > In the Bourree there is still a melody in the upper voice with a bass line
> > to accompany it.
>
> To me the bassline sounds like a melody.

I agree that you might hear a bassline as having melodic elements, but is it a melody? In my opinion, it dosen't function as a melody so it isn't intended to be one.

> Maybe that's because I play that piece myself.

Granted, but again, it's hard to see a baseline functioning as a melody. As the great master himself once said, " If you can't whistle it when you leave, it's not a melody. "

> Isn't a bass-line a musical statement?

Statement, yes, melody........?

> > Perception doesn't really have anything to do with it.
>
> If you listened to just the bass line in the Bouree you'd
> hear it as a melody. (and it even has some nice twiddles in it).
>
> That would be perceptual shift.
>
> Try it, it's fun.

Having listened to that piece on many ocassions, I have never heard the bassline as a melody. Thjis would not require a perceptual change, it would require a melody there to be heard.
Compare to say the Bach Gmaj fugue with the opening statement/subject/melody started in the bass on the pedals, now that is a melody.

> > If you are intending to get across two melodies,
> > a Fugue or Invention would be a much better choice since the
> > listener can discern two melodies ( in the case of a fugue,
> > subjects ) at once.
>
> Actually a within a fugue there is likely to be four simultaneous parts,

A simple fugue might be that, although Bach had written fugues with up to 14 subjects, if you mean "parts" to be subjects. If you just mean 'parts", then no, a fugue would start out with a statement of the subject, usually followed by the introduction of a counter-subject, a re-statement of the subject & on from there to any number of "parts" sounding at once.

> ...but the terms 'subject' (and 'countersubject') don't refer to
> that.

Sorry, but I don't know what "that" you are referring to. I think I lost what we were discussing at this point.

In a fugue a 'subject' is a theme which may appear in a number
> of the parts. You're right though, the two part invention might be
> a clearer example.

> > Still not sure what the overall point is though.
>

> Per's was that the Stick naturally helps the player
> to play 2 independent lines, and that this was for him
> a big advantage of moving from guitar to stick.
> I was commenting that the guitar has historically been a
> multi-part instrument, designed to play arrangements of music that
> would equally suit an ensemble.

Understand this part & yes, I completely agree. The guitar was in a long line of instruments that allowed a single played to play some very complicated arrangements.

> I hope I've explained,  ...what point are you trying to make?

Yes, Andy, this point is clear & I certainly agree with it.



Mark Showalter
Minden Jot!

myspace.com/folkstone57
http://www.last.fm/music/Mark+Showalter
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I bé, després estava aquella dona que sense saber que estava il.luminada, exclamava: "O siga, que he pagat per aquesta merda de màquina i resulta que ni tan sols em diu si sóc un Buda o no, òsties!, no podien posar-li una agulla , o que pitara, o alguna cosa així? "


Raul Bonell at Blogger: http://raulbonell.blogspot.com
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com

Mark Showalter
Minden Jot!

myspace.com/folkstone57
http://www.last.fm/music/Mark+Showalter

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