Re: WHAT SORTS OF FIREWIRE INTEFACES ARE PEOPLE USING THESE DAYS?

[mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>]

Ted,
Not that I know anything about soundcards, Ive always had my eye on the MOTU traveller its basically a mixer AND sound card is it not?, with a mix of digital and analog ins.. I can speak for the audio quality however... Now that Im into laptop more than ever these days, its something I know I need to start taking seriously, its just that my crappy Ozone, gives me a mini keyboard and 8 knobs into the bargain.


Anyway, any audiophiles care to comment on the traveler sound?



mark

ps... did I already ask you this.. did you already sell your boss hex effects? I asked you right... befuddled brain.. work goddammit!

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:05 AM, tEd ® KiLLiAn <tedkillian@charter.net> wrote:

Dustbunnies, Bill, Rainer, Todd, et al,

Yes, the VG99 was the sole sound source on that particular "testing" occasion.

But my ultimate plan is to combine several signal sources: VG, GR, and the processed output of my guitar's own magnetic pickups (and some other hardware FX) and get them all into the computer together.

I was just using the VG that day because it's output is line-level and felt it would offer a fairly consistent audio source for comparison.

Yes I know about the SPDIF digital connection I could have used.

But given that my plan/hope is eventually to mix at least 3 stereo sound sources into the MOTU (or other interface) it would really tell me nothing particularly useful to have used only the SPDIF digital input alone in my test since I cannot use SPDIF on all of them.

I have concerns for the audio quality of all of the other line-level signals I will be inputting.

As I said, I was "doing sort of a "scientific" A/B test" . . . not perfect, but an honest comparison.

Yes I know about impedance matching, I have had a fairly complicated rig for more years than I care to rattle on about here and have sailed those waters going and coming enough to know as much about it as anybody here does (I'd like to think).

What I was describing was this: After adjusting everything (all gain levels, etc.) to get the very best result that could be had (to the best of my ability or knowledge) with the VG and MOTU it sounded pretty okay . . . and if I had just stopped right then and had been satisfied . . . then we might not even be having this conversation.

But I didn't, after that I thought I'd just test it and give the straight VG signal a listen through the same speakers to compare.

As I stated, the difference was quite significant.

I may be able to live with this if only my looping and related FX are being done by the computer.

Even various hardware loopers (my old EDP included) didn't reproduce "perfect" audio quality.

But I was really hoping NOT to have to patch the laptop into the FX send and return of a line mixer like I did my old EDPs.

I was hoping I could do enough of my signal processing (for all signals) in the MacBook to have most of the processing and all of the mixing occur there as well.

I want to lessen my stage "footprint" and gear schleppage."

What I am finding is that I am enough of a guitar audio "tone snob" that I may not be able to do it with the MOTU (unless I plop down $1200-$1500 USD for a super, duper, ultra, bigger better interface than I have already in the loaner Ultralite).

That extra scratch paid in hope of a unknown/possible tonal improvement is a big budgetary stretch for me right now.

I want this to happen.

I sold my EDPs in September, more or less burning my bridges and forcing my own hand to move in this direction.

There is very little chance of turning back now.

But, unless I can find some satisfying and affordable way of solving this little hiccup I am sort of stuck on it.

I know (or believe) that lots of you out there are getting satisfying guitar tones out of a computer, not just crazy creative FX and looping, but good tone as well.

It may not happen all of the time, but it does happen.

The looping and crazy FX are sort of the easy part in my book.

I have made a number of unhappy gear purchases of late.

I am trying to avoid another - and the subsequent loss of money and time for no particular good reason.

I had hoped to buy a new Ultralite of my own and return the borrowed one to it's owner.

Then I considered an Apogee duet for a while, with supposedly better preamps and better A/D converters (but only a pair of them).

That would mean I would still need my rackmount line-mixer outboard of all that to combine all those extra signals before it entered the computer.

That doesn't seem to make any sense . . . but I know it would work and yield the tone I am after.

It just doesn't lessen my gear load any.

Just replacing the EDPs and a couple of other rack FX with a laptop merely complicates things all the more when it comes to "playing out" (live gigging) - especially if I wind up keeping a mixer and half a dozen other FX pieces and controllers just to make it all work.

I am getting more and more to the point that I wish I'd stayed with what I had in September.

I knew how it worked, knew how to program it and knew how to use it.

Every step I take now on this road I find 5 new hidden ones ahead that I am going to have to get through before further progress can be made.

This is very, very unsatisfying.

I just want to get back to playing ASAP.

Sincere best regards,

Ted

On Dec 13, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Dustbunnies wrote:

On 12/14/10 12:45 AM, "tEd ® KiLLiAn" <tedkillian@charter.net> wrote:

I played my Gibson and VG99 combination into the MOTU.... [*snip*]

...I was only using a pair of the regular line-level inputs on
the back.

Ted,

Is the 99 your sole sound source here?  If so, don't neglect the Digital
I/O!

The VG-99 is, of course, a digital sound source.  What you're now doing is
taking that digital signal, then running it through the VG's onboard DAC's
to turn it into an analog signal then digitizing it all over again when you
run it into the MOTU's ADC.  All this is just to get a digital signal into
your computer.

Why?

Instead, see what happens if you keep everything digital going into the
computer.  Try running the S/PDIF Output from the VG directly into your
laptop, or even the USB Out.  I've gotten good results using S/PDIF (not as
much so with the USB -- it "felt" a little laggier -- although that could
merely be a rote psychological effect, since I almost expected something
like that).  In fact, the Digital I/O is why I grabbed my AudioFire2 in the
first place.

(aside: this was before I realized that the input on the Macbook can also
accept Optical S/PDIF directly; so I could've cheaped out on a $30
Coax-to-Optical converter rather than a $200 interface.  Still, I needed a
small 2-channel DAC for the output, and it does a great job there.)

As it stands, you're putting your signal through an extra digital ]-->analog
]-->digital conversion that doesn't necessarily need to be there.  It's
obvious you don't like the sound that the MOTU interface is imparting on the
signal, so try removing that conversion and going direct digital into the
computer.

Even if you don't like the idea of remaining in the digital domain, it
should, at the very least, tell you if your problem is with the MOTU's Input
conversion or if the difficulty is with the interface's outputs.  Should
help troubleshoot the exact source of your frustration.

  --m.

-- 
mark francombe
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