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Rick et al, I just wanted to say again thanks for taking time, time is all we really have, taking time to write such a good post about percussion and how it might relate to static percussion loops in looping. In building live song track, the way I mostly loop, I can either record short two or four measure grooves or play them in my mini vdrum setup, and since your post been thinking and listening closer and I noticed that if I just record my mediocre live drumming, it is a weird combination of having a drum groove thats not perfect but gets repeated perfectly, it is really cool hadnt thought of that but it really makes for a much better feel on the overall song. Ya'll other genuises, thanks too. Soon I'll be brave enough to show yall a loop song!!! Andy the O