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Re: Re: Latency in looping path

...the problem is Per I need to somehow mute the original signal once the 
loop starts playing back! thats why everything apart from the sax and vox 
are being rooted through
Abelton so that the original signal (with at least the drums) can be muted 
back into the mix at the very point the loop finishes playing. I do not 
have any midi muting on my Mackie LM3204 ! ..
or would it be possible to mute that copied signal you are talking about 
at the interface via a midi message?... Also if the loop is already 
leaving the computer with latency surely the copied original signal is not 
going to be in time
with the loop when one converts back to the original signal?... The more I 
think about it the more I suspect I will have to buy a separate hardware 
looper like the Roland RC-300 or maybe TC Helicon VoiceLOve Touch 2 which 
has quantise
looping on board which I have seen syncing with Abelto perfectly! Too bad 
my current VoiceLive2 doesnt have the quantise feature the new Voice Touch 
does though I have been told the Voice Live 3 is imminent!... I was about 
to get the Touch 2 but I will wait for the Voice Liove 3 that may well be 
launched at Frankfurt Messe in a few weeks time. I have tried fiddling 
with the sample/latency option in Abletons preferences reducing the buffer 
size down to 128 samples which does reduce the latency but increases the 
odd "digital click"! I even tried running the return signal through one of 
my old Apogee Track 2 convertors. Admittedly I have to use a cheep little 
device that converts the SPDIF into optical to reach the MacBook Pros 
digital input, hoping that if the A/D conversion was done by the Apogee it 
would reduce the latency- no such luck! Going in analog or digital doesnt 
seem to be the culprit.. its as Reiner says: its the crunching going on in 
the MacBook and Ableton that is to blame. BTW I am not running ant fx in 
Ableton at all: only the Looping plug in. I would use the simple track 
capture /playback feature but there is no way of having it quantise 
without giving it a pre determined roll before it records (1 bar, half a 
bar, quarter, sixteenths etc). The Looper plugin does the looping in 
perfect sync.

>---- Original Message ----
>From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
>To: "Loopers-Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Tue, Feb 19, 2013, 5:50 PM
>Subject: Re: Latency in looping path
>Yes, of course a decent audio interface helps with the latency issue!
>On the level of interfaces you are mentioning there is also the
>possibility to copy the audio stream coming from your physical mixing
>desk directly to the the audio interface's output without passing the
>software (Ableton Live). This is called "direct monitoring" and has
>zero latency. You don't really need to listen to the mixer desk stuff
>THROUGH Ableton Live do you? What you need form Live is only the
>output of whatever you snag as a loop and maybe effects like reverb
>and delay that you add to your mixing desk stream.
>If you run Ableton as a sync master latency in MIDI instruments driven
>by MIDI clips/loops as well as Live's Loopoer plugin should be
>compensated for. If you run Live as a sync slave to something else
>this latency compensation does not work ('cause not even Live can look
>into the future and read your mind) and you need to be carful not to
>use and latency inducing plugins within the session.
>Greetings from Sweden
>Per Boysen
>On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Antony Hequet <antony.hequet@yahoo.fr> 
>> the RME UFX or Fireface or any interface RE has allows a very low 
>> latency
>> because the audio does not have to go thru the MAc before it is sent 
>> tot he
>> mix or any submix you have, unless you are using the processing within
>> Ableton to enhance your sound sources.
>> Antony Hequet
>> ________________________________
>> De : "info@riversonicstudios.com" <info@riversonicstudios.com>
>> À : Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Envoyé le : Mardi 19 février 2013 18h31
>> Objet : Latency in looping path
>> Hi Per,
>> Thought Id get back to you to thank you and your frieds on the site for 
>> your
>> help.
>> I have sussed the looping OK !
>> However I now have another problem: progressive latency as I am now 
>> running
>> my main mix
>> into Ableton LIVE before it reaches the the audience! I suspect I will 
>> have
>> to get a decent
>> audio interface rather than using the MacPros I/O Have tried going in
>> digitally from the KORG KRONOS via
>> optical into the Mac- makes no difference. I suspect that coming out 
>> analog
>> is the main culprit.
>> Anyway I was just wondering how any of you guys avoid this latency when
>> running through ABLETON LIVE and
>> if a Firewire 800 unit like the MOTU 828 Mk" or the RME 800 would be the
>> obvious solution to this problem?
>> Audio path: I run all my synths/external drums from a bus on the analog
>> mixer into a track on Ableton either using its LOOPER plugin
>> or its straight forward auto input record function making sure of course
>> that the track is muted once the loop plays back in either instance.
>> My mixer has a ":' alternate bus rooting fortunately that allows me to
>> reroot the returned signal from Ableton avoiding feedback: I actually 
>> send
>> the signal via the main bus out on the mixer and reroot the return out 
>> of
>> the alt3/4 bus which feeds the P.A.
>> BTW please forgive my rude interuption but I dont quite understand the
>> format of your forum yet!.. as I understand it its all via email no?
>> Thanks! Henry
>>>---- Original Message ----
>>>From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
>>>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>>>Sent: Mon, Feb 18, 2013, 10:53 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Still More Live Questions
>>>On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@frontier.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Let's say I have 15 scenes in a Live Set that I want to call up and 
>>>> use
>>>> in
>>>> different songs. Song A might use scene 1. Song B might use scene 
>>>> 5--and
>>>> so
>>>> on.  Maybe Song B will use two scenes--one each in different parts of 
>>>> the
>>>> song. There is no way to program my MIDI controller so that scene a is
>>>> armed
>>>> when I hit song A's preset, correct? And there's no way to trigger 
>>>> Song
>>>> B's
>>>> different scenes on a per-preset basis --or as I need them-- in the 
>>>> song
>>>> by
>>>> doing that programming in advance in my MIDI controller--or is there?
>>>MIDI PC is not good with Live, you should use simple MIDI notes
>>>instead for launching scenes. To launch a scene in Live you learn the
>>>MIDI Note (a CC might work too) to the corresponding slot on the
>>>master output's column in the Session View. You can even use a MIDI
>>>Note that are part of what your controller is sending to your guitar
>>>rack when calling up a song, letting that event trigger both the
>>>guitar rack stuff and launching the scene in Live. And note that there
>>>are two options for controlling scens in Live; you may launch a scene
>>>directly or you may select the scene (to be launched by the next
>>>command). Oh, there is actually a third way (that I used myself with
>>>Live for a concert once) and that is to learn the MIDI note event to
>>>an empty scene preceding the actual scen that will start the song.
>>>This approach also needs that you assign Live's "trigger next" button
>>>to a pedal. At the gig I had this assigned both to a foot switch and a
>>>hand mixer knob.
>>>Greetings from Sweden
>>>Per Boysen