Re: Samplers as loopers?

[sean o'donnell <sodonne@vm.temple.edu>]

Matthias:

>Matthias Grob wrote:

> Do samplers replay immediately after recording?

Not mine, and I believe not most.  That's why I recently bought a JamMan.

> Sean exlained carefully:
> >Although my sampler has a whole lot of memory (16MB), it is incapable of
> >modulating pitch without a sample shortening or lengthening over time.
> 
> >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time 
>for
> >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and
> >>absolutely not a real-time stunt.
> 
> This is a serious technical problem. The real time pitch shifting is not
> exactly real time and screws up harmonies. At least my PCM80 does, and I 
>do
> not have the curage to claim that anyone should do better.
> 
> For simple waveforms it comes out reasonable. So we might ask the 
>builders
> of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another 
>which
> is real time with some limitations in sound.

Good idea!

> Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, right?
> So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice
> without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices
> sounding together or is this impossible?

Once again, my old sampler (AKAI S612) had an overdub function which 
allowed you to 
press a button and simultaneously hear/record with the existing sample.  
My new sampler 
(ASR-10) works _exactly_ as you've explained.  Record samples and play 
them together.  
You can do other nifty tricks like splice sections of samples together, 
invert samples, 
merge samples, even direct the machine to play individual samples (those 
constituting a 
single waveform) in specific or random orders.

> Sean again:
> >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample
> >start- and
> >end-points.  Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the
> >other.
> ...
> >I may have just explained something that is entirely elementary to
> >everyone on this list in way too many words...
> 
> Not for me (I never had a keyboard!), thank you for the perfect 
>explanation!
> You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it 
>rather
> a especial one?
> Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead?

Actually, the new sampler (ASR10) seeks to automate a number of functions 
which the 
manufacturer designed under the assumption that musicians would use it to 
make standard 
bourgeois music a la any Late Night Talk Show Band.  In other words it is 
not as 
"open-ended" as I would like it to be.  

> Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it
> should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by taping
> instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire 
>loop
> as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that
> loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it...
> Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music?
> I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious 
>bass
> player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool
> for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to
> the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop 
>the
> next problem part and so on.
> Could you do that with a sampler?

In a sense, yes.  Using the function MODULATE LOOP-POSITION, you could 
loop sections of 
a piece (e.g., one-half minute starting at zero ending at 100) as many 
times as you like 
and then move on to another section with overlap of the first (e.g., 
one-half minute 
starting at 25 and ending at 125).  This can be done in real time using a 
wheel to 
control the position of the loop.  The only thing is that the start- and 
end-points of 
the modulated loop would remain fixed.  This is why I want to use some 
type of slider 
that will augment or diminish the loop unit.  I'm actually trying to 
devise a way to do 
this on my keyboard.  I will keep you posted.

> Well, my brain is trained and focussed for development. Hope you do not
> mind asking all that stuff...

My pleasure

> The aim would be to develop what you need, after all... once the 
>comercial
> way will be free again...

Hmmm...nothing commercial is free :>

> Matthias