Re: Samplers as loopers?

[matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)]

Me:
>> Do samplers replay immediately after recording?
Sean:
>Not mine, and I believe not most.  That's why I recently bought a JamMan.

So this would be the first thing to ask from a "looping sampler", right?

>> >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed 
>time for
>> >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and
>> >>absolutely not a real-time stunt.
>>
>> ... We might ask the builders
>> of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another 
>which
>> is real time with some limitations in sound.
>
>Good idea!

Second thing.

>> Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, 
>right?
>> So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice
>> without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices
>> sounding together or is this impossible?
>
>Once again, my old sampler (AKAI S612) had an overdub function which
>allowed you to
>press a button and simultaneously hear/record with the existing sample.
>My new sampler
>(ASR-10) works _exactly_ as you've explained.  Record samples and play
>them together.
>You can do other nifty tricks like splice sections of samples together,
>invert samples,
>merge samples, even direct the machine to play individual samples (those
>constituting a
>single waveform) in specific or random orders.

This must be nice at home, not so much for stage, right?
Or would you any of these features be usefull in real time?

But we need the AKAI S612 overdub function. Third thing.

>> Sean again:
>> >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control 
>sample
>> >start- and
>> >end-points.  Both sliders were identical and were situated one above 
>the
>> >other.
>> ...
Me, asking about the slider sample edition  AKAI S612:
>> You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it 
>rather
>> a especial one?
>> Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead?

Sean answering:
>Actually, the new sampler (ASR10) seeks to automate a number of functions
>which the
>manufacturer designed under the assumption that musicians would use it to
>make standard
>bourgeois music a la any Late Night Talk Show Band.  In other words it is
>not as
>"open-ended" as I would like it to be.

One of the maior problems when programming a feature: The handyer we make
it for a certain purpose, the less flexible it ends up for other use.

>> Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it
>> should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by 
>taping
>> instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire 
>loop
>> as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that
>> loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it...
>> Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music?
>> I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious 
>bass
>> player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool
>> for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to
>> the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop 
>the
>> next problem part and so on.
>> Could you do that with a sampler?
>
>In a sense, yes.  Using the function MODULATE LOOP-POSITION, you could
>loop sections of
>a piece (e.g., one-half minute starting at zero ending at 100) as many
>times as you like
>and then move on to another section with overlap of the first (e.g.,
>one-half minute
>starting at 25 and ending at 125).  This can be done in real time using a
>wheel to
>control the position of the loop.  The only thing is that the start- and
>end-points of
>the modulated loop would remain fixed.  This is why I want to use some
>type of slider
>that will augment or diminish the loop unit.  I'm actually trying to
>devise a way to do
>this on my keyboard.  I will keep you posted.

But as long as you use a slider to define things, you have a hard time to
keep something rhythmically exact. You have to find the correct point on
trial and error, while everyone listens to it.
Using a taping method you could hold the key to play the loop and say,
press another one at the new start point and let it go at the new end point
and from then on, this very key would call this new section (or multiple)
of the old loop. Does that make sense?

And the question remains how many people would want to use a sampling
keyboard for this. Sure, you want to use what you have as flexible as
possible...

Still, the only chance to have such a machine one day is to go through it
and imagine it working. And to only way to find out whether people want it
is to build it and show it. A hard way. The way new things came up.

Matthias