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Steuart wrote: >my understanding is that these guys were thinking in terms of lines in >*modes* - - not in functional harmony. isn't this also how indian music >works (not that i know a damn thing about this), they work in ragas (which >are vaguely analogous to modes) and dont't really have harmonic >pregression? Yes and no. Indian ragas are similar to modes, but are more specialized in that each raga has its own definitive individual melodic contour. In some ragas this is a straightforward ascending and descending pattern, in others more of a zigzag pattern. Due to the variance in the melodic shape, different ragas can be based on the same "mode" or "scale." There is absolutely no idea of harmonic progression, or "harmony" at all in Indian music. The classical music is entirely monophonic, with the melody occurring over an unchanging tonic drone. Since it is primarily a soloist's music (singer or instrumentalist, accompanied by drum and drone) there is no interweaving of melodic material, but a long, unfolding development of the raga. Even in instances where vocalists perform with their students for backup, the additional voices are singing in unison with the main vocalist. In contemporary practice, instrumental duets and trios (called "jugalbandi" - Hindi for "tied together") are becoming more common. But the same ethos applies -- the instrumentalists will perform precomposed material together in unison, and then play solo individually, coming back together in unison for the "gat" or "bandish" ("composition" -- akin to the idea of the "head" in jazz). One of the reasons for the lack of harmony in Indian music is that so little of the melodic material is precomposed, and so much is improvised on the spot by the soloist, based on the "rules" of the raga. Another reason that Indian music developed along non-harmonic lines (no pun intended) is the microtonal nature of the raga system. Another is the use of very large (or very small) intervallic leaps within the melodies. For example, in North Indian music there's a very popular raga called Todi. Its scale is as follows: Tonic flat Second flat Third (which is "extra flat" microtonally) raised Fourth Fifth flat Sixth natural Seventh Octave As you can see, this sort of melody does not lend itself well to harmonization. There have been some attempts to "harmonize" Indian ragas, but it seems to me a futile task, and a waste of time trying to apply the mechanics of one musical system inappropriately to another. Something like trying to "square the circle" so as to improve automobile tires :-) My two paisa.